Topics: Immigration, Production tax credits, Senate preselection

E&OE

ANDREW CLENNELL:

Joining me live now is the Shadow Treasurer Angus Taylor. Angus Taylor, thanks for your time.

ANGUS TAYLOR:

Good to be with you Andrew.

ANDREW CLENNELL:

The government made a bit during the week of your answers at the National Press Club where you said if elected, not only would there be a 25% reduction in permanent migration, there would also be a 25% reduction in net migration. That's people leaving the country versus people coming in for our viewers. Now, can you tell me what would be the net migration figure in a Coalition government in 25-26, 26-27 and 27-28?

ANGUS TAYLOR:

Well Andrew, Peter Dutton has already talked about that first year, where we would see a reduction of around 37% in the NOM, as it's called the net overseas migration, and then that would move to the 25% reduction, the quarter below where it is today. And the important point here, Andrew, is if we're going to have Australians being able to get into a home to realise the great Australian dream of homeownership, then we've got to have a situation where we've got a housing supply balanced with immigration. It's absolutely crucial. And right now we don't have that. We'll have, we're approaching a million new Australians since Labor came to power, 530,000 in a year, that is way above what our housing supply can accommodate. And the result of that is it's just getting harder and harder for young Australians to buy a home or even rent a home, frankly, so getting that balance right.

ANDREW CLENNELL:

But 160,000 the first year, what does it uptick to the second year, roughly?

ANGUS TAYLOR:

Well, Andrew, I've just been through the numbers. 37% In the first year, moving to 25%, and somewhere in the middle in the second year. And that is the pathway to making sure that we get that balance right, between immigration and housing. And the crucial point here is this, Andrew, that this government has lost control of its immigration policy. We've seen extraordinary numbers coming in. They are numbers that our housing supply simply can't cope with. And we do need heavier cuts in the initial years, which is why those numbers are what they are, and then balancing out over time to a level that we think is sustainable over the longer term. And that, we think is sensible policy, that gives some time for our housing supply to catch up. There are important things that have to be done in that area. And when we're seeing red tape and the National Construction Code, and so on, adding significant costs for housing supply for builders, we've got to give some breathing space for our housing supply to come back into line. And that's why there's heavier cuts in those earlier years going to a level that we think is sustainable over time.

ANDREW CLENNELL:

I mean, that's a heavy cut alright. How are you hoping to achieve that big of a net migration reduction and keep an international education industry and get enough workers in?

ANGUS TAYLOR:

Well, there's a couple of points I'd make about this. It's true that we do want to, we will be working with the universities to establish a cap for international students. And that's because we've seen a big increase in international students, well above where we were pre COVID. And that's putting enormous pressure on housing in those areas around the universities, those metropolitan areas, particularly in our big capital cities. And so working with the universities to get a cap in place, having a student visa fee, which is appropriate for the circumstances, is crucial. But you've also got to work on the other side of the equation, Andrew to make sure that Australians who are already living here are given every chance to get into the job market by increasing participation rates for pensioners, for veterans. And we've announced policies there that would increase the work bonus to get them into work. We've also said those international students who here should be able to work some extra hours to make sure we've got the skills we need. And importantly, Andrew, the thing that has created the skill crisis more than anything else in this country is an absolute collapse of labour productivity in this country since labour came to power. I mean these are extraordinary numbers. We've never seen anything like this before. And that's why we do think it's right to have sensible industrial relations policies that are right for employee and employer, good for workers as well as good for employers, getting rid of the current definition, or the old definition, of casuals and replacing it with a definition that makes it very difficult to employ people as casuals, reduces flexibility in the workplace, reduces productivity, and is bad for the economy and bad for skill shortages.

ANDREW CLENNELL:

The fact that Sydney University has 46% of its students as international students. Would you like to see that number cut? And what would you like to see it cut to if that's the case?

ANGUS TAYLOR:

Well, I think it's even a little higher than that. But regardless, these are big numbers. And as I say, we'll work through appropriate caps with the universities. But we've got to get the balance right here. This is not about no international education economy in Australia, we should have international education, it's an important part of our economy. But it is about getting the balance right. And we've lost that balance with those numbers that I talked about earlier. I mean, these are extraordinary numbers, almost a million people coming in, in two years, Labor has absolutely lost control. An important part of that increase has been international students. And so getting it back into balance is crucial. I mean, none of this will undermine the fact that Australia has been an incredibly successful immigration nation for a long, long time and will continue to be, Andrew, these numbers will underpin that, but you've got to get the balance right. Labor has failed on getting that balance right. The consequences for Australians trying to find a home is, I think, now getting to the point of being extremely damaging. And we need to have that right balance inside the universities as well.

ANDREW CLENNELL:

All right. Well, David Littleproud, said on the program last week, the cut in international students would not include a cut in students to regional, going to regional universities. Is that the plan?

ANGUS TAYLOR:

The first point I'd make is that we're seeing way more international students at the metropolitan universities than at the regional universities. That's a matter of fact, and the sorts of numbers you just quoted a moment ago, are representative of what we're seeing in our big capital cities in Sydney and Melbourne. And we're not seeing that sort of balance out in the region. So quite obviously, if we're to try to get this all back into balance again, then the place to focus is the metropolitan universities. And that's why we've said, that's where our focus will be. We'll work through that with the universities, we wanted to do this in a collaborative way because we understand that they need to be able to prosper, and they need to be able to fund the important work they do. But the flip side is that this needs to be a reasonable balance. And the big metropolitan universities need to prioritise first of all Australian students and the quality of education they are getting, and make sure that we've got the housing supply we need for young Australians and all Australians in our capital cities.

ANDREW CLENNELL:

Mr. Taylor, has the opposition done any sort of numbers on what the policy to cut net migration by 100,000 a year would cost the budget and economy?

ANGUS TAYLOR:

Well, we put all the work we do, all the policies we announce, we put through the PBO and we work through that with them very closely and we will continue to. We're confident that the package of policies that we announced on budget reply night is revenue neutral, it's going to be positive for the budget. And we can get this balance right.

ANDREW CLENNELL:

How can cutting...I mean, how can it be revenue neutral when you're cutting 100,000 from the net migration. Can you explain that to me?

ANGUS TAYLOR:

I said the package is revenue neutral.

ANDREW CLENNELL:

So what's making up for it?

ANGUS TAYLOR:

Well, the important point here, well there's a couple of points actually, I'd make. The first is, obviously we've announced that we would raise student visas for international students. And that's obviously one factor here. The second point is this, Andrew, is that different immigrants have different impacts on the budget. And this is a very, very important point. We understand that when a skilled immigrant comes to Australia at the age of 30, and they're going to work for the next 35 years, they make a really positive contribution to the budget, but there's others whose contributions aren't as positive so...

ANDREW CLENNELL:

So you're cutting the family reunion, is that what you're saying?

ANGUS TAYLOR:

I didn't say that. We have said that we're getting the refugee and humanitarian intake back to the levels they were at under the previous government. And that's appropriate. And we think that that's the right number. That was the number we had in government that, by the way, is one of the very highest intakes in the world. So it's all about balance. It's about making sure you get the balance, right, that's good for the budget, good for the economy, and good for our housing market, which is stretched to a point which is just out of control. And young Australians are just giving up.

ANDREW CLENNELL:

Absolutely agree on that. But you're not worried your migration policy would risk tanking the economy?

ANGUS TAYLOR:

No. And you know, the only way Jim Chalmers gets this economy to grow is through immigration. That is the wrong approach. It seriously, he's got it all wrong. He always gets it wrong. But this is really, he's lost the plot. The idea...

ANDREW CLENNELL:

Some would argue your government did the same, Mr Taylor. But yeah, I hear what you're saying.

ANGUS TAYLOR:

Well, no, but hang on. I'm going to respond to that, Andrew, because this is very, very important. We've got a GDP per person recession. That's a household recession. That's the recession in what Australians feel. Their disposable incomes have gone sharply backwards under this Treasurer and under this government, and they are feeling real pain. And he thinks that the answer to that is to just up immigration rates. I mean, seriously? This guy doesn't understand basic economics, which is GDP per person is what counts. That continued to go forward under us outside of COVID. But it hasn't under this government. We've had three quarters where it's been negative, four quarters where it hasn't been positive. I mean, we are in a household recession right now. And if his answer is higher immigration, then he needs to explain that to the Australian people.

ANDREW CLENNELL:

Alright my apologies, before we played that grab earlier, I'm going to play this Peter Dutton grab to you in a second. Let me just ask this, point this out first. There's some contention around comments that Peter Dutton and you've made around the government's production, tax credits policy that you oppose. This is what he said after the budget.

[Grab of Peter Dutton]

Don't give money to Twiggy Forrest, he says. Now of course when you were energy minister, you announced the $44.9 million grant for Twiggy Forrest's Fortescue Future Industries green hydrogen gigafactor electrolyser manufacturing facility at Aldoga in Gladstone, that really was a mouthful in the press release. The total project value was $136 million, so you're giving them a third. So how do you reconcile that, with what you did in government, with what Peter Dutton was saying there?

ANGUS TAYLOR:

Because Labor's policy's production tax credits, and they were r&d projects. I mean, this is a big difference. It's a really big difference. Government has always played a role in research and development in this country, and always will, and always should. When there's emerging technologies and there's r&d projects, it's right and proper that the government should be involved, because there's big risks that are taken by the private sector and there's a role for public...

ANDREW CLENNELL:

But Mr. Taylor, is it really r&d?

ANGUS TAYLOR:

Well, absolutely, absolutely. But what Labor's proposing here is production tax credits. This is, it's the equivalent of going to every cafe owner in Australia and saying, you know what, we're going to give you a buck, the government's gonna give you a buck every time you produce a coffee. Now, I'm sure the cafe owners of Australia would think that's wonderful, but it's not how you have a great cafe sector in Australia. We've got a great cafe sector, and the reason, and restaurant and hospitality, but the reason why that is so strong is because they serve their customers well, Andrew. Production tax credits are the wrong policy for this time, particularly in this sector, when we've got the fundamentals all wrong from this government. They're not getting their approvals through, they're wrapping these industries in red tape. They're adding extra regulation in all sorts of areas, whether it's the Safe Guard mechanism or forcing them to reveal or find the scope three emissions, the emissions of their customers, I mean, this is all stuff that is just absolutely crippling...

ANDREW CLENNELL:

I'm sorry to interrupt, but I need to get on this point. I mean, you announced or promised more than a billion dollars in grants to industry to assist them with energy production and manufacturing. You're saying it's all r&d. $69 million for Stanwell Corporation Central Queensland hydrogen hub. $1.25 million for Origin Energy Gladstone project. $3 million for Santos clean hydrogen design project. $15 million for Santos' carbon capture development, up to $70 million to support BP Australia's Kwinana clean hydrogen industrial hub, up to $100 million to support Darwin LNG and Santos...

ANGUS TAYLOR:

Andrew, if I may respond...

ANDREW CLENNELL:

I mean, you did this all the time. It wasn't any credits. Well, you should be proud of all the projects...

ANGUS TAYLOR:

When you've finished interviewing yourself, I'm very happy to make a comment on this, because not one of those projects was a production tax credit. And you know it. So let's be clear here. This government is proposing a policy here, because they've absolutely failed to get the production they want and they need, out of these crucial competitive sectors. These are world leading sectors here in Australia, our resources sectors and the processing of those resources have been world leading for decades, Andrew, and they haven't needed production tax credits. There is a long history of government working with them and other sectors in research and development projects, early stage pilot projects, but not production tax credits. And once we go down that path, we might as well subsidise everything across the economy. I mean, this is crazy stuff. This is not how to use taxpayers' money, it's not how to build successful sectors. And it's not how we'll continue to have a prosperous, wonderful resources sector in this great nation.

ANDREW CLENNELL:

Alright, we're nearly out of time. Just a couple of other things I want to ask you about. You've spoken about spending cuts you'd make including around the Albanese government's hiring of 36,000 public servants. Are you saying you would cut that amount of public servants?

ANGUS TAYLOR:

We're saying we don't believe we need 36,000 additional public servants and up to $25 billion of spending associated with them at this time. That's not the priority.

ANDREW CLENNELL:

Well how many do you need?

ANGUS TAYLOR:

Well we'll have our fully costed policies out before the next election, but we don't need 36,000. There's obviously areas like defence and national security, where we want to make sure that the resources are there in appropriate numbers. And you know, veterans' support is one that we added numbers to towards the end of the last government and it's important our veterans are well supported. But we don't need 36,000 additional public servants at a time like this, Andrew. We've got household budgets being crushed right now by Labor's policies, the collapse in disposable incomes. a homegrown inflation that is bearing down on Australian families and households. And so adding 36,000 public servants is not respectful to those taxpayers at a time like this. And we've got to get the balance right in all of these things.

ANDREW CLENNELL:

It's being reported this morning, you backed Jess Collins to roll sitting Senator Hollie Hughes for pre selection. Is that true?

ANGUS TAYLOR:

Andrew, that's an extraordinary characterisation of a democratic process inside the New South Wales Liberal Party. You know, there were four wonderful candidates who put their names forward. There was a vote of, a democratic vote of the party yesterday. They came out with their priorisitiation of those candidates. Andrew Bragg is at the top of the ticket, Jess second. I congratulate them on those top two spots. Hollie will be running for the Senate as well in the third Liberal position and I congratulate all of them. And Lincoln Parker, who was the other who put his name forward. Good on them. We are very lucky in the NSW Liberal Party, we're seeing amazing candidates coming forward now and I congratulate all of them for participating in a wonderful democratic process.

ANDREW CLENNELL:

Shadow Treasurer Angus Taylor, thanks so much for your time this Sunday morning.

ANGUS TAYLOR:

Good on you.

ENDS.