E&OE

 

LUCY ZELIĆ: Angus Taylor is the Shadow Minister for Defence and I'm pleased to say he joins me on the line now. Angus, good afternoon to you. Thank you so much for making the time today.

 

ANGUS TAYLOR: Great to be with you. Thanks for having me.

 

LUCY ZELIĆ: Now, if Donald Trump isn't a fan of Kevin Rudd, this naturally puts us in a very precarious position because we understand that a lot of the way Trump operates is through personal relationships. In your estimations, do you think, Angus, that we're in a bit of trouble here?

 

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well, it's very clear that we haven't been able to secure a meeting between the Prime Minister and the President that, as you rightly point out, personal relationships are essential in most situations when you're trying to build an alliance and strengthen an alliance, personal relationships matter. But I think it's particularly true with the current President and there's something not working here. We've got to fix it. Now I don't know, only the Prime Minister and those in his close circle will have a sense of why this is not working, but it's not. I mean, it's been easier for the Prime Minister to get a meeting with the President of China than the President of the United States and yet the United States, of course, has underpinned the security of the world and certainly our region since the Second World War. This is a relationship that really matters, whether you like the President of the United States or not. That's not the material issue. The material issue is whether the alliance matters to us, both in terms of national security, defence and of course, the economy, with tariffs in particular. And that relationship really does matter. So, get on your horse, sort it out, get a meeting and start working these issues through, including the AUKUS review, which is a review of that very important alliance we have around nuclear submarines that we need to get sorted out as quickly as possible.

 

LUCY ZELIĆ: Is it as simple Angus, as saying, right, we're going to remove Kevin from this ambassador role, Mr Rudd from this ambassador role and that will open up the channels and ends there?

 

ANGUS TAYLOR: What I know is, is it's not working and the reasons for that probably are apparent to the Prime Minister himself. So, sort it out. I mean, getting meetings with people where the relationship is a long standing … we fought every single major war since Federation alongside the United States. I mean, this is a relationship which transcends personalities and individuals and so get what you have to do to make it work and that's the number one issue. Now, part of that is defence spend. I mean, we need to increase our Defence spending, not because the United States is asking us to do it, but because it's the right thing to do in terms of our own sovereignty and control over our own destiny and ensuring we have peace through deterrence in our region and so, sort these things out as quickly as possible, get the relationship on the right footing, make the case to avoid tariffs on Australian exports, make the case for the AUKUS, the nuclear submarines and the alliance more generally and I think the Americans are open to this. But clearly the Prime Minister has got this wrong so far.

 

LUCY ZELIĆ: Is it achievable? We've seen the outcomes and the discussions off the back of NATO and many of the European leaders saying that it is achievable that they can get to that 5% GDP. At the very least, there is a demand for Australia to reach at least 3.5% of GDP, which judging by reports are suggesting could cost to the tune of $210 billion. I mean, can we do this economically? Is it achievable on Australia's part, Angus?

 

ANGUS TAYLOR: Yeah, it is absolutely achievable. I had to sit there and do the numbers before the election on how you can make this work, and you can. I mean, it may well mean that we have to drop some of our green hydrogen projects, some of the so called Made in Australia projects that are not going anywhere anyway to fund this. So, there are areas of waste that we're going to have to deal with in order to achieve this and get the trade-offs right. But we can do it. We are facing authoritarian regimes around the world now that are flexing their muscles. I mean, we've seen this in Iran, we've seen this in Russia, we see it with the military buildup of the Chinese Communist Party in our own region and so, this is a priority. Keeping Australians safe is the first order of business for any good government and so, we have to find a way to make sure we're spending enough on defence. We're well below par now. It's very clear after what's being talked about and agreed in Europe and also in our own part of the world.

 

LUCY ZELIĆ: Who would be, in your estimations, the best potential ambassador for Australia?

 

ANGUS TAYLOR: Look, I'm not going to get into speculating on who they might be. I do know we've had magnificent ambassadors in the past. I mean, Joe Hockey I just spoke with this morning, indeed was extraordinary. He managed to get access, he managed to organise meetings. I know he helped me out on a number of occasions with getting access to the previous Trump administration. Joe was truly extraordinary in the role as with Arthur Sinodinos as well. So, we know the sort of people who can do this and we know what needs to be done. Get on and do it. Get on and do it. This shouldn't be difficult. We are friends with this country. We've worked with them on so many fronts.

 

LUCY ZELIĆ: It doesn't seem like it at the moment, does it, Angus? It doesn’t seem like Anthony Albanese, under his leadership, is recognising that this is our most important ally. The response to the Israel, Iran situation in the Middle East, his reluctance to increase further spending on the defence budget. It just seems as though we are drifting further and further out to sea. Pardon the pun, and into obscurity.

 

ANGUS TAYLOR: And we will pay a high price for this if it continues. We'll pay a high price for it economically. We'll pay a high price for it in terms of achieving peace through deterrence in our own region. So, it is incredibly important that the Prime Minister get control of the situation. At the end of the day, the buck stops with him, with Penny Wong and with Richard Marles. They've got to sort this out and make sure it happens and get on with it fast.

 

LUCY ZELIĆ: We know that Penny Wong, of course, is heading over to Washington to see if she can try and repair any of the damaged relationships that we have. One last question. How did you react to the Chinese, the top diplomat to Xi Jinping yesterday, coming out and saying that, you know, effectively that raising our defence expenditure was a mistake and that China and Australia are in fact, friends?

 

ANGUS TAYLOR: At the end of the day, we want to trade with China, but we won't be told by China what we should spend on defence and that is a decision for us. I don't think we should be bullied by any country on this. We should do what is right for Australia and right now, the right answer for Australia is to increase our defence expenditure to at least 3% of GDP. That's a commitment we took to the last election. We've reconfirmed that commitment and I'm going to be talking about it from now through to the next election as well.

 

LUCY ZELIĆ: Well, Godspeed to you, Angus Taylor, Shadow Minister for Defence. Thank you so much for making the time to chat to us today. A lot of issues going forward for our nation, but we thank you greatly for your time.

 

ANGUS TAYLOR: Thanks for having me.

 

ENDS