Topics:  Marles US visit, US-Australia Alliance, AUKUS, defence spending, Bob Katter, social cohesion.

 

E&OE

 

CHENG LEI:

 

Joining me live for discussion is Shadow Defence Minister Angus Taylor. Welcome to the show, Angus. You know, a bit of confusion about this Richard Marles trip and whether the talks were coordinated. What does all this say about our relationship with the US, where defence is concerned, and are we –media – making too much of it? 

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

 

Well, Cheng Lei, thank you for having me. Look, there's enormous confusion about what happened here, including confusion from Richard Marles himself. As of Sunday, there was going to be a meeting, and then a couple of days later there wasn't, and then there was, and there wasn't. I mean, look, no one can make head or tail of it. Including the objective of the trip, the outcomes of the trip and what actually happened on it. But the reason this is important is because the US Alliance is incredibly important to peace in our region, to deterrence of the threats that we're facing right now – the most dangerous situation since the Second World War. And it's clear that there are threats to the AUKUS agreement and we need to see our Prime Minister and the President of the United States meeting and nutting those issues through, and so to have an incredibly confused trip during a sitting week is not helpful. It truly has been Richard Marles’ Magical Mystery Tour, and it would be good for him to front the media and explain what happened, what the outcomes were, and what we're doing to make sure we have the assurance of the AUKUS agreement and the Alliance more generally.

 

CHENG LEI:

 

Could there not be responsibility on the US part as well, given that we know this Administration can be very vague and erratic? 

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

 

Well, the Administration's concerned, as I am actually, that we have an Administration here in Australia, a Government here in Australia, that is underfunding defence at a time when we need to get our defence spending to a level that even just meets the needs of the Government's own plan. We are not there. They are at around two percent of GDP in terms of spending. We need to be closer to three if we're going to support AUKUS and the sustainment of our existing capability and other capabilities, and we're not at that point and this is a real problem for us. It's a problem for the Alliance. The Americans have expressed that concern and we need to work it through with the Americans. And look, we need to know from Richard Marles how he explained that and what he's going to do about it.

 

CHENG LEI:

 

If you were governing, would you just raise defence spending to three and a half percent as the US requested?

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

 

We would raise defence spending, as we've said during the election campaign and since, to at least three percent of GDP. That's what's required right now to balance the needs of AUKUS and more generally across our ADF. I mean, we've got ASPI telling us we're at risk of having a paper defence force, and that's simply not good enough at a time when we're seeing rapid militarisation by the Chinese Communist Party, of the PLA, and broader threats around the world – authoritarian regimes flexing their muscles. We've just seen it this week, Cheng. I mean, it is clear that authoritarian regimes around the world see vulnerability and they're exploiting it, and we have to demonstrate strength, and we do that both as a strong ADF, but also through our alliances with the United States and the UK and elsewhere.

 

CHENG LEI:

 

But what Iran has done in Australia is more about doing things in our society. In the wake of, I guess we are a soft target because we're very open society. So how do we further or better protect our society from that kind of threat?

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

 

Well, we obviously have to make sure that we are taking on these authoritarian regimes at all times. I mean, they don't share our values and the key here, the objective here is peace, not conflict. And it always should be to prevent these sorts of regimes interfering with our way of life, with what we want to achieve, and with our values. But that means we have to have strength, we have to project strength, and we have to do that, not just on our own, but with our allies and that's why the US Alliance is so important.

 

CHENG LEI:

 

And where do our values lie where, you know, I want to refer to Bob Katter’s confrontation with a Channel 9 journalist this morning. You know, is it right to threaten someone with a fist to brand him a racist after a legitimate question wasn't even finished? What do you think?

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

 

Yeah, I haven't actually seen that interchange, but I have a strong belief that the media have an important role to play in our democracy, and they can ask questions as they see fit. We will choose how we…whether or not we will answer them of course, Cheng. But look, I share your view that the media has an important role to play, and we should allow them to play that role.

 

CHENG LEI:

 

And again, you mentioned values. This anti-immigration rally does talk a lot about these Australian values. And how should politicians be safeguarding social cohesion during times of division like now?

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

 

Well, I think the first point I'd make is that we have to take on our adversaries around the world and that's my role in Shadow Defence and that's what I will continue to do. But social cohesion at home is important. I think immigration is a legitimate issue that people are concerned about. I have no idea who's organising those rallies. I haven't been able to work that out Cheng, and that's an issue, of course, but I think we're a country that can handle robust debates on important issues and we should have those debates.

 

CHENG LEI:

 

Thank you so much for your time. Shadow Defence Minister Angus Taylor.

 

ENDS.