Topics:  Upcoming meeting between Prime Minister and US President, Liberal Party, defence spending, net zero, Middle East, Pollie Pedal, ADF training incident in Townsville.

 

E&OE…

 

MARK LEVY:

 

One member of the Liberal Party who does want to talk to us is Angus Taylor, the Shadow Defence Minister. I'm pleased to say he joins me on the line. Angus, good morning to you.

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

 

Good to be with you Mark.

 

MARK LEVY:

 

I thought we'd start off with this meeting between Anthony Albanese and Donald Trump, because that's something we're going to hear a lot about over the weekend and on Monday and Tuesday once it all wraps up – that’s if it happens, that is. I mean, we've got Trump wanting to meet with Putin and Zelenskyy at the moment. So, are we certainly locked and loaded that this meeting between Australia and the United States will actually happen this time?

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

 

Well, there's always uncertainty, and it's taken a long time to even get to this point. Way too long. I mean, Albanese has had three meetings with the head of the Chinese Communist Party, President Xi, but not with President Trump, the head of the free world. So, you know, we've got to make this meeting happen. But more importantly, we've got to make it effective. We’ve got to make sure that what we come out of it with is an AUKUS and US alliance that works, with proper commitments, plans, funding, and some progress on trade as well. Particularly, our farmers and others want to get access to those US markets on the best possible terms.

 

MARK LEVY:

 

Well, I mean, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to work this out. I mean the US President doesn't suffer fools. Will the PM be made to look like one?

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

 

Well, I don't know. I think if he goes in there with the wrong offering, then he will. Look, we haven't been serious about funding our Defence Force to the level it needs to be funded. At the moment, the best the government can do is just play around with numbers. They're just using creative accounting to say, "Look how much we're spending." But they're not spending enough. We're way short of where we need to be if AUKUS is going to work, if we're going to have a Defence Force that's funded to the level it needs, for the people it needs, the capabilities it needs, the agility it needs, and the new technologies like drones and so on, missile technology, which is changing so fast. So, I think there's a real risk because we're not going in with what we need - not just to support the alliance, but to defend ourselves. The US will be sceptical, and that's the real concern we have.

 

MARK LEVY:

 

Out of interest, you've been in politics a while now, and Anthony Albanese has been for decades. How does the Prime Minister handle himself in these high-level meetings? I know he's on the opposite side of politics, but yes, he's been in the game for a while. But, this is a whole new kettle of fish. You're negotiating with not only a ruthless politician but a ruthless businessman who's used to getting his way. I mean, what can we expect from Anthony Albanese - do you think he's one to take up the fight, or does he just sit there and cop his medicine?

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

 

Well, it's a very good question, Mark. As yet, we don't know, because he hasn't had a meeting with President Trump. That's the point! Until now, he's been hiding. He's been catching up with the President of the Chinese Communist Party, but not with the head of the free world – the President of the United States. And I think that's a real concern. We've seen him in hiding. He needs to get serious about the US alliance. Look, it really matters - not just from an economic perspective, but also from the point of view of peace and security in our region, which is at risk of conflict like we haven’t seen before in the past. The way to avoid conflict is to be strong, to have strong alliances, to deter your adversaries. We know that from history. And right now, we don't have the strength we need to make sure we have the underpinning for ongoing peace in our region that’s so critical.

 

MARK LEVY:

 

How do you respond as an opposition if this meeting goes well, given my common complaint –  which I've made you aware of – and that is we still don't know what the Coalition stands for or what those Liberal Party policy platforms are?

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

 

Well, we do know what we stand for in my area, I can assure you of that, Mark. We stand for getting our funding to a level of 3% of GDP, which is what we need to support our Defence Force, to make sure we have the strength we need at a time like this. To make sure we can work in the right way with our allies like the United States, and that is absolutely crucial. But look, in terms of your question - if we get the right outcomes, we'll applaud it. We always do. We're on Team Australia here, and we need to be on Team Australia, because right now is the most dangerous time we’ve faced in our region since the Second World War. We need Team Australia, and we need a Prime Minister who's prepared to go into bat for all of us.

 

MARK LEVY:

 

I spoke to one of your colleagues, James Paterson, a little earlier this week. He's demanding an end to the apology tour from the Liberals, a Farage-lite populist agenda and the rejection of free-market thinking would lead to the destruction of the Liberal Party. Is he right?

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

 

Well, I think we do need to get on with the job, and I think the apology tour does need to come to an end. We all understand. People are frustrated, and many are angry at the result of the last election. We need to do better. But the way forward is to put forward policies on stronger economic growth, on affordable energy, on stronger families, on balancing immigration – having lower immigration, because of housing being completely out of whack – on a stronger Defence Force at a time like this. I mean they’re the policies I know that Australians want, and we need to get on with the job of rolling our sleeves up and getting them out there. Because if we let Labor run this country without a contest, I think we're all in deep trouble.

 

MARK LEVY:

 

I must admit, Angus, I really respect your colleague, Senator Paterson. But he lost me – and he lost my listeners – when he trotted out the old line that we've been hearing for months: "We're reviewing our policies." I mean, conservative voters are turning on you. The polls would indicate they're jumping ship, going to One Nation. You spoke a second ago about you know what your policy position is as far as the defence portfolio is. So, if I’m to go back prior to the last election, what was it? Three per cent, was what the Liberals were pushing for as far as defence spending is concerned? So is that something that’s been signed off by your leader, Sussan Ley?

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

 

It has. And look, I announced this within days of getting into this role. To me, taking on this role meant properly funding our Defence Force and making sure it has the capability and strength it needs at a time like this. I wasn’t prepared to take on the role unless that was the case, and so, that’s the case I’m prosecuting. We’ll say more about what’s underneath that, but it’s pretty obvious what we’ve got to do. We have to make sure we’re properly funding AUKUS and the nuclear submarines. But we also have to make sure we’ve got the capability to defend our nation. The missile capability, which is becoming more important. Drone and counter-drone technologies. We’ve seen this in Ukraine; it’s incredibly important. We’ve got to speed up the pace of investing and building our capability in those areas. I think that is incredibly important. We’ve already said a lot about it, and we’re going to say a lot more, Mark. That’s what we need to be doing across the board.

 

MARK LEVY:

 

When?

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

 

Well, I’ve already said a fair bit, and I’ll say more in the coming weeks and months.

 

MARK LEVY:

 

What about something like net zero? Because I’ll be honest with you….

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

 

No, it’s a fair cop.

 

MARK LEVY:

 

Mate, I like you, right. I think you do a great job, you don’t pull any punches. But I’m sick of asking the same question: when are we going to find out about things like net zero? I mean, you’ve got Albo sitting down with Trump on Monday. They’re polar opposites when it comes to climate change. What did Trump describe it as at the UN? The greatest rort on the world - or whatever he said. But what I keep saying as far as the Liberals go: you’ve got to go and argue against what the Labor Party is doing, but you can’t work out what your position is on net zero. How long are we going to wait? A few more months?

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

 

It’s a fair cop. But let me say this – and this is incredibly important. We have opposed Labor's bad 2035 targets. The principle we've set is we will oppose destructive and unachievable targets. The 2035 target, which is 62% to 70%, is destructive and unachievable. If you were to achieve it, you'd have to wreck the economy to do it.

 

MARK LEVY:

 

But Angus, how do you oppose something when you don't have a position yourself?

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

 

Well, that is our position. We have clearly taken that position. Now you're right, having taken that position on 2035, we’ve got to get to a position on 2050. But 2035 is a long way ahead of 2050, so to me, it's the more important date.

 

MARK LEVY:

 

So, do I read between the lines that there will be targets from the Coalition?

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

 

No, what you're reading between the lines is that we're not going to accept destructive and unachievable targets.

 

MARK LEVY:

 

So, will you guys push ahead towards a net zero target or not?

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

 

You know, I can't announce our policy on 2050 on this program. But I can announce our policy – because we already have – on 2035. We will not have destructive and unachievable targets, and we are not accepting Labor's 62% to 70% target. That is unambiguous. And look, I strongly believe that's the right answer, Mark. I was one arguing very strongly that is the right outcome. Those targets are not right for this country. And you're right, we'll have more to say about 2050 in the future.

 

MARK LEVY:

 

David Littleproud, Matt Canavan, are willing to welcome Liberal MPs across to the Nationals if they're not happy. Any of your colleagues considering a switch?

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

 

That's a question for them. I'm not. Look, we've got to get the Liberal Party right. We have an important and historically strong Coalition. You know, I come from a background where I know the National Party well. I grew up in a family with a strong predisposition to the National Party. But I'm a Coalitionist, and I think the Coalition is strongest when the Liberal Party and the National Party are both strong. We need to do the hard work to make sure the Liberal Party is strong in the coming months and years.

 

MARK LEVY:

 

Before you go, I note that Australia's Chief of Joint Operations, Vice Admiral Justin Jones, has been speaking with his US counterparts about what support, potentially, Australia could lend to this lasting peace in the Middle East. Is this something that Australia should be doing?

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

 

Well, look, we certainly need to do everything we can to make sure a sustained peace is achieved. This is an incredibly important opportunity. I'm off to Israel on Sunday. I'll be over there talking with people across government, military, civil society, including some of the survivors of that terrible attack on October, a couple of years ago – October 7. We have to do whatever we can to help. It's a long way from us, and it's not a conflict we've been directly involved with, of course. But this is a big opportunity, and we’ve got to make sure we do everything we can to make it work.

 

MARK LEVY:

 

Angus, before you go, the most difficult question you will face in 2025: when wearing some leather loafers, do you wear socks or go without?

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

 

The closest I get to leather loafers are my RM Williams, by the way. And the closest I get to wearing them without socks is the holes I always seem to have in my socks – which seem to be there all the time! It doesn't matter what I do. I buy new pairs of socks, and they still have holes in them the next day.

 

MARK LEVY:

 

By the way, how did you pull up after the Pollie Pedal? That was the last time we spoke.

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

 

Yeah, I was sore, but it was a fantastic event for a great cause, for our veterans, for our Special Forces veterans. And we had a brilliant time and raised a lot of money – over $250,000 – for our wonderful veterans.

 

MARK LEVY:

 

And just on that, Angus, we're all thinking about the family, friends, and colleagues of the soldier who lost his life in that training exercise earlier this week.

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

 

Yes, absolutely tragic, obviously. Tulsa Rumney, a young bloke, very well respected in 3RAR. Really Tragic, and two others injured as well. So our thoughts are with his family and friends.

 

MARK LEVY:

 

All right, Angus. I said it the other day, the enemy's not within your own ranks. They sit across the aisle, mate. So, let's get cracking. Thanks for joining us, as always.

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

 

Thanks mate.

 

 

ENDS.