Topics: Negative gearing, Labor’s lies on stage three tax cuts, Labor’s economic mismanagement, Labor’s tax on family cars and utes, Renewables  

E&OE   

DAVID SPEERS: 

Angus Taylor, welcome to the program.  

ANGUS TAYLOR: 

Good to be with you, David.  

DAVID SPEERS: 

So why shouldn't negative gearing be limited to just newly built housing stock as even Joe Hockey suggested back then? 

ANGUS TAYLOR: 

Well, thanks for having me, David. But look, the simple point about this is we won't support changes to negative gearing. And the reason is that we don't want to see more competition in the housing market coming from industry super funds and international investment funds, which is what would happen if Labor had their way. That's their intent. We know they're considering this. Their answers in the parliament on this, this week, were very wishy washy. They were all over the place. But more competition in the housing market from international investment funds and industry super funds is not the answer. The answer is we do have to have an alignment between housing supply and immigration. We've already announced that we've recommitted to superannuation for housing. It was a policy, of course, we took to the last election, a popular policy.  

DAVID SPEERS: 

Accessing your super... 

ANGUS TAYLOR: 

Yeah, exactly which you were talking about a moment ago. And these are important policies. And we'll have more to say about this. We completely accept this as a really big deal for so many Australians. It is amongst, younger Australians and I see it with my own kids, a top line issue. We're focused on it but taking away negative gearing isn't the answer. 

DAVID SPEERS: 

So it's a no, ruling out any negative gearing change. You've been asking the government all week to rule out negative gearing and other things. So just to go through a few other options, capital gains tax, trusts, you're not going to touch those either? 

ANGUS TAYLOR: 

Well, David, again, we'll announce all our election policies before the election, but we're not proposing to go down those paths. Let me be clear, we are absolutely committed to lower simpler, fairer taxes. We are absolutely committed to a back to basics economic agenda. We've seen a collapse in disposable incomes of Australians we haven't seen in my lifetime on a sustained basis. 8.6%, 8000 bucks for the average Australian. I mean, I'm seeing people in food banks around this country I've never, never witnessed before and they all say this. It has to be about getting the economy to work again. And the last 18 months has been disastrous with rising prices, 12 interest rate increases and 27% increase in personal income tax has been paid. 

DAVID SPEERS: 

Just on that. Well, I've heard you use that that line. That's because more people are working, isn't it? The only tax change the government's made is the one you'll see...  

ANGUS TAYLOR: 

No, absolutely not. I mean, it's far more than that. We're seeing bracket creep working, it's ugly magic. It is the thief in the night and it takes from Australians' pay packets without them noticing until they see there's less in their bank account. That's one of the functions of inflation where wages haven't been able to keep up and they haven't. We've also seen LMITO, of course, going so there's been a very significant increase in taxes being paid. Many Australians, some of whom will be watching this program, will have noticed they didn't get money back in their tax return last year that they had in previous years. 

DAVID SPEERS: 

So just coming back to the question, though, about capital gains tax and trusts, I think you said you're not proposing to touch those. But do you rule it out? Because this is a demand you're making of the other side. Do you rule it out?  

ANGUS TAYLOR: 

We'll take our - look, we are for lower, simpler, fairer taxes.But David, here's the point. Labor took to the last election promises that they didn't keep. On electricity prices, $275, we heard it so many times before the election - 92 times from the Prime Minister. We didn't hear it afterwards. Stage three tax cuts. A calculated lie, we now know that...we are not... this is important. We're not going to make that mistake. What we take to the election, we will do. There's been too much loss of trust between Australians and leaders across politics, business, media, and it's our job to reestablish that trust. The breach of trust - the egregious breach of trust - we've seen and betrayal we've seen from Labor in recent weeks with their calculated lies, is not the way through this, so we will work our way through our policies. They will be focused on lower, simpler, fairer taxes, on tax reform, in keeping with the stage three tax cuts. 

DAVID SPEERS: 

What about the GST? Would you touch that? 

ANGUS TAYLOR: 

Again, David, raising the GST is certainly not my focus, and it's not going to be something that we'll be doing work on. But I tell you what we...I tell you what we will be doing is taking strong tax policies like some we've already announced. We've already said that small business should have access to the same accelerated depreciation arrangements that they had prior to COVID. I mean, this is enormously important. We have to get our economy working again, there's no amount of redistribution you can do that makes up for the $8,000 that the average Australian has lost and the 20 or 30,000 that many Australian families have lost... 

DAVID SPEERS: 

I've heard that before... 

ANGUS TAYLOR: 

...who have mortgages. 

DAVID SPEERS: 

Okay. 

ANGUS TAYLOR: 

You've got to get the economy working. And only Liberals understand that. That's about mobilising workplaces, mobilising businesses, getting people out there aspiring... 

DAVID SPEERS: 

Just on tax. You've been getting into the government all week, because they on negative gearing say "we have no plans to touch it". And yet, on the GST, capital gains tax and trusts, you've used very similar language. 

ANGUS TAYLOR: 

Well let's listen to, let's look at what the government has been doing. We know from Steven Kennedy this week, he spoke, of course on Friday, that the government, treasury was working on these tax changes for a long time. We know that... 

DAVID SPEERS: 

But I'm asking about your position.  

ANGUS TAYLOR: 

We haven't got a Treasury doing that kind of work. So it's right and proper that we ask what they're doing. Now, we have every indication that they've been looking at negative gearing. And let me tell you something about what we've seen this week. We support tax relief, because at the end of the day, the failed management of the economy from Labor means Australians deserve better. The real problem with what Labor has proposed here is that they're funding that tax relief by breaching a promise that they made over 100 times. And we want them to lay out the options that they considered. Why is it that they chose a funding model for this tax relief that involves such a breach of trust? 

DAVID SPEERS: 

Well you promised to keep those stage three tax cuts too of course, and now you're supporting the changes? 

ANGUS TAYLOR: 

No, we're not. This is the important point, this is that the point I was making. We support the tax relief, not because that's the very best option, the best option is to manage the economy properly. But because after 18 months of failed management by Labor, Australians are hurting badly for all the reasons I've outlined.  

DAVID SPEERS: 

So because of the circumstances now... 

ANGUS TAYLOR: 

What we don't support is funding that through a betrayal of the Australian people and broken promises. Now the question is, what options did Labor look at in this process? On your show, on your show, Anthony Albanese said he had released all the documentation. That is clearly not true, another lie. Give us the options. What were the other options that Labor looked at. 

DAVID SPEERS: 

In terms of where you now go on tax reform, you've said strong tax reform you'll take to the election. You want to keep in the principle of those original stage three cuts? What are those principles you'd like to keep? 

ANGUS TAYLOR: 

Well the first principle is delivering on what you say. And I don't say that lightly, David. I mean, the erosion of trust I've seen in recent years for leadership in every domain of Australian society is, I think, terrifying for the implications for our future. So we've got to get that trust back. And that's incumbent on you, on me, on everybody else. The second principle is lower, simpler, fairer taxes, we believe in that firmly as the Liberal party. That's why we've had fights over tax policy in the 2013 election, the 2019 election, the most recent election, of course, we'll continue to take up the torch on lower, simpler, fairer taxes. Fighting bracket creep, rewarding aspiration and hard work. I mean, these are hugely important principles. Not dividing Australians unnecessarily. These are the principles that will give us that strong economy, low inflation economy that we need, and the economy that can actually deliver for Australians again, as Labor has failed over the last 18 months. 

DAVID SPEERS: 

You've previously committed to undoing Labor's change on superannuation, they've reduced the tax break for bigger accounts, those with 3 million or more in their super. I think that's going to cost you around 2 billion a year. Is that still a commitment? Or does that go into the mix of what you more broadly want to do now?  

ANGUS TAYLOR: 

No absolutely we've made that commit. 

DAVID SPEERS: 

So whatever you do is on top of that?  

ANGUS TAYLOR: 

Of course. And we haven't seen, obviously, the budget, it'll come in May. No doubt Labor's gonna want to spend a lot more money. I mean, as soon as they see some money, they spend it. That's what Labor does. And that's the challenge, of course, is finding the money, as Labor keeps spending it. There's been an extra $209 billion since they came to power, David, that's $20,000 for every Australian household, and there's no sign of that stopping. So we will have to work within the budget constraints that Labor creates as they spend the money, as they always have. 

DAVID SPEERS: 

So just a final one on tax. And I guess this is a question about ambition, really. We mentioned earlier that, you know, oppositions trying to take big tax reform to elections we've seen, you know, not so successful - John Hewson and Bill Shorten and so on. Are we looking at, you know, sweeping tax reform, serious tax reform that you'll take to the election, or is it going to be more tokenistic?  

ANGUS TAYLOR: 

Well, we are very ambitious to get the economy back on track. You just can't have a hit of that scale, unprecedented in our lifetimes. We can't take a hit of that scale to Australians' standard of living. And whilst Labor thinks the answer is to just move money around, to change the slices of the pie, the answer is actually to get back to basics.  

DAVID SPEERS: 

So you're up for it, you're up for serious reform... 

ANGUS TAYLOR: 

You know, whether it's industrial relations where we've opposed the government's position, whether it's competition policy, where all we've seen from Labor is crony capitalism, whether it's aligning immigration with housing supply, I mean, these are all crucial issues.  

DAVID SPEERS: 

So you are, on tax, willing to do something big, you could even look at the GST you've left that one... 

ANGUS TAYLOR: 

Honestly, David, raising the GST in the middle of a cost of living crisis is not something that a Liberal's gonna support. I mean, let's be clear. 

DAVID SPEERS: 

So you won't go to the election with... 

ANGUS TAYLOR: 

Don't put words in my mouth but that's obviously not going to be a focus. Look, if Labor wants to raise the GST they should be... 

DAVID SPEERS: 

I'm just asking, just to be clear for viewers, that's not on the table? 

ANGUS TAYLOR: 

So in the middle of a cost of living crisis, your focus has to be on bringing prices of things down, not up.  

DAVID SPEERS: 

Right. 

ANGUS TAYLOR: 

And that will be our focus over the next months as we bring together our policies.  

DAVID SPEERS: 

Let me ask you about industrial relations, the government's latest changes passed through the Senate. The Coalition has been sharply critical throughout all of this, whether it's the right to disconnect, whether it's the multi employer bargaining, will you roll it all back? 

ANGUS TAYLOR: 

We'll certainly take a targeted package of repeals to the next election. There's no question about that. We're opposing the legislation, we've been unambiguous in that position. And I'll tell you why David. We've seen, behind that collapse in living standards, is an unprecedented collapse in labour productivity in this country. This is not the sort of the grinding challenge the world has had with productivity over many years, this is a collapse of 6.1% in labour productivity in the last 18 months. Now, if that's the case, people can't be paid more on a sustainable basis. This is an important part of the reason why standards of living have collapsed. And we have to get back on track here. And the key to that is to get employers and employees working together to make their workplaces more prosperous, more productive, more competitive, and not to put union officials in the middle to try and impose their views of the world. We've got to get our workplaces back to that focus.  

DAVID SPEERS: 

So what would you undo? I mean, the right to disconnect... 

ANGUS TAYLOR: 

Obviously and you know...Peter Dutton has said that in the last hour or so.  

DAVID SPEERS: 

Multi employer bargaining too?  

ANGUS TAYLOR: 

There's aspects of that piece of legislation that are unacceptable, but I'm not going to preempt Michaelia Cash, who will bring forward those policies. And as always, with our policies, and I'll emphasize this, we want to do things that are achievable, and that we're going to remain committed to. We're not we're not going to do what Labor has done. Getting things through the Senate on industrial nations is always hard. So it will be a targeted package. And it has to be. 

DAVID SPEERS: 

Vehicle emissions standard, the government unveiled its long awaited plans earlier in the week. You've labelled them a ute tax. We know at least some of your colleagues previously supported a vehicle emission standard. But I think the criticism here is about the model that's been put forward by the government. Can you just clarify for us, is it that level of ambition in the government's plan? Or is it the very idea of a vehicle emission standard that you oppose? 

ANGUS TAYLOR: 

What we oppose is anything that's going to rise, that will increase the price of the most popular cars in Australia. That's what we oppose. And it's a very similar point to your question on on the GST. In the middle of a cost of living crisis, you don't impose a policy that's going to increase the cost of living for Australians. 

DAVID SPEERS: 

But you could have a standard with a less well, ambitious trajectory...  

ANGUS TAYLOR: 

You know what, if it's not going to increase, it'll distort the pricing, so what what's the point? And look, Chris Bowen here, this is the Minister who said he was going to get electricity prices down by $275. We're not seeing any sign of that. This will increase the price of vehicles and you only have to look at the documentation.  

DAVID SPEERS: 

Some vehicles, maybe not others.  

ANGUS TAYLOR: 

Well the most popular vehicles in Australia are the Hilux and the Ranger and if any vehicle prices are going to go up, it's going to be those. Let's be clear about that. And if you look at the documentation carefully, you will see there's penalty provisions that they're proposing of $100 per gram kilometer, David. Now, for a Hilux and a Ranger, that is a very significant penalty. And the idea that customers won't end up paying that? You've got to be kidding me. And we've seen this in other markets like New Zealand. 

DAVID SPEERS: 

Well, government says it won't drive up prices. 

ANGUS TAYLOR: 

Chris Bowen says it won't. And how credible is he after what he took to the last election. 

DAVID SPEERS: 

On renewables more generally, the Nationals are now saying halt the rollout of renewables in the regions. Do you agree? 

ANGUS TAYLOR: 

Well it's very clear that the 28,000 kilometers of transmission lines and all that goes with it is having huge impacts on our regions. And we have to get it back under control. 

DAVID SPEERS: 

But do you back the Nats?  

ANGUS TAYLOR: 

Well, I do say that there's been overreach by Labor, there's no question about that.  

DAVID SPEERS: 

But you're not going that far. 

ANGUS TAYLOR: 

Well, I'm just saying there's been overreach, we'll take our policies, as always, to the next election. And we'll make sure they're policies we can keep. As always, with any projects, there's good projects and bad projects, but 28,000 kilometers of transmission lines, and a big loss of prime agricultural land that we're starting to see right across Australia. We think there's a better way. Ted O'Brien is working away on this. We've already said quite a lot about energy policy in recent times and we'll continue to.  

DAVID SPEERS: 

Just to final one. Barnaby Joyce, as you know, was filmed lying on a footpath after Parliament had risen the other night. Are you comfortable with the explanations he's given for this? Or does this raise a concern for you about standards of behaviour? 

ANGUS TAYLOR: 

Look, people love to jump to conclusions on these things. And I'm certainly not doing that. And I don't think anyone should. I think the primary issue for us is Barnaby's welfare. And we will remain focused on that. I certainly will remain focused on that. 

DAVID SPEERS: 

When you say that, is he okay? 

ANGUS TAYLOR: 

Well clearly he wasn't at the time. So that's something that we're going to focus on, and we should focus on. That's always got to be the focus when these sorts of things happen. But the jumping to conclusions we've seen David, you know, it's a bit of a habit in the modern world, I see that but it's not appropriate. 

DAVID SPEERS: 

You'd say the same if it was a Labor... 

ANGUS TAYLOR: 

I think jumping to conclusions on any of these things, we've seen too much of that lately.  

DAVID SPEERS: 

Angus Taylor, thanks so much for joining us this morning.  

ANGUS TAYLOR: 

Good on you David. 

ENDS.