Topics: Labor’s immigration detention chaos, Conflict in Middle East, Labor’s infrastructure chaos, Tackling inflation, Deb says goodbye to Afternoons

E&OE

DEB KNIGHT:

Yes, final question time a lot to cover and it is unfortunate that the government's Bill Shorten is not available today but the Shadow Treasurer Angus Taylor is here. Angus, welcome to you.

ANGUS TAYLOR:

Thanks Deb, great to be with you.

DEB KNIGHT:

Now, the government has been absolutely asleep at the wheel on this High Court ruling seeing 84 detainees released at this stage including murderers and rapists. Can you believe that the government wasn't prepared for this? That it didn't have legislation ready to go if the High Court ruled the way they did?

ANGUS TAYLOR:

Well, it's absolutely extraordinary. As you say 84 - murderers, rapists, child sex offenders amongst them and the fact that they weren't ready is truly extraordinary. And just keep this in mind Deb, not only did they know this case was going on, they would have seen the debate going on in the High Court. There's transcripts, there's submissions, so there's a lot of information to work on, to see how it’s unfolding how it's going to play out and therefore to prepare legislation in the event that it came out the way that it did. So what it meant was this week Labor was absolutely flat footed. It had no idea where to go. I don't think at the beginning of the week they had any intention of bringing out legislation to manage the situation. And ultimately, we had the spectre on Thursday – yesterday - of them accepting that they needed to bring in legislation but then saying they were going to reject all of our amendments to try and improve it a bit. Probably not enough, but at least to get a start on it and then finally agreeing to all those amendments, so they had nowhere to go. Peter Dutton, ultimately from opposition, was doing the work that the government should have done, and there's still a long way to go. And I think there's still very significant community risk out there and concern out there. There's no question about that.

DEB KNIGHT:

Of course there is, of course there is. I've got to say, I didn't expect the government to agree to the Coalition's demands for tougher restrictions, but thankfully they did. But it might have been a blessing that the Prime Minister was out of the country again, at another international conference, because it meant that at least something concrete was done.

ANGUS TAYLOR:

Well, I think that's right. I mean, who knows what discussions were going on, on their side, but I think they realised they'd lost the debate. I mean, if you're letting out - you have all these people that include amongst them very serious criminals, and you had the victims of those crimes, speaking out. I mean, it's an extraordinary thing. We had a number of victims of those crimes, saying “I am worried, I'm deeply concerned about this”. I think the government realised they'd been asleep at the wheel and the only person who really understood the issue, the only people who understood the issue, were on our side led by Peter Dutton, of course, who is a former Home Affairs Minister.

DEB KNIGHT:

Admittedly though the government is following the rules here because if the High Court rules, which it has, people can't be held in indefinite detention, then the government can't put these people back into these facilities. But that's what Peter Dutton is now suggesting. You’re drawing a very long bow here, isn't it?

ANGUS TAYLOR:

No, because you can change the law. This is the point. The High Court has ruled that the law doesn't allow you to do this, well change the law. And that's exactly what we proposed this week. And Labor ultimately, having rejected the need, or the ability to do that, then accepted it by the end of the week. So you change the law and you can see where the High Court is going without precision, but at least directionally, based on the debate that was going on inside the High Court. That's what good lawyers do. So you can construct the law in a way that is likely to be successful, and you get on with the job.

DEB KNIGHT:

And there’s just no clarity from the government here. I mean, Andrew Giles has not even held a press conference to clarify what's going on here. And potentially we've got more than 300 detainees in total who could also be released. Do we have any further clarity? Do you in opposition know what the possibilities could be here?

ANGUS TAYLOR:

No! I mean, he refused to answer the most basic of questions. I mean, questions like, are these people being released - were they released - without a visa? Well, he didn't answer the question with any clarity. I mean, look, he's a deer in the headlights on this one. I think his basic philosophical position - ideological position - is to let everyone out and so he didn't think to deal with the fact that we've got very serious criminals amongst these people.

DEB KNIGHT:

Now, other issue I want to look at - heated Scenes this week in Parliament of course, between the Prime Minister and the Opposition Leader. The Prime Minister accusing Peter Dutton of making anti-Semitism a partisan issue for political gain. Did Peter Dutton go too far?

ANGUS TAYLOR:

No, I don't think so at all. I mean, there's very serious concerns here about community safety. On the one hand, concerns about these people who have been released that we just talked about, on the other hand, concerns that the conflict going on in the Middle East might be imported here to Australia. And I don't think any of us sensible people want to see any sign of that. And to prevent that coming to Australia, it's important that the governments speak with one voice. They weren't speaking with one voice. There's been a whole series of different positions that have been taken by senior members of the Labor Party, and Peter Dutton was calling out the Prime Minister and saying you need to speak with one voice to reduce the likelihood of that kind of conflict emerging.

DEB KNIGHT:

But ASIO has been very clear here calling on everyone including politicians to dial down the tensions regarding the Middle East fearing a possible outbreak of violence here in Australia. Isn't this sort of inflammatory language just adding fuel to that fire?

ANGUS TAYLOR:

Well, I'll tell you what adds fuel to the fire, Deb. It's having different senior members of the Labor Party taking different positions on this issue. I mean, we all need to speak with one voice. That's why we backed the original words that Labor put out and we aligned and we were one voice. And then we see Penny Wong going off in a different direction on the ceasefire. Albanese had to dial that back. I mean, we need to stay consistent, all of us. And that's the whole point. And that is for exactly the reason that you've just said,

DEB KNIGHT:

Now, we've got on infrastructure the government at war with the states after announcing these major infrastructure cuts. You'd be pretty happy with this though, wouldn't you? Because the Opposition has been calling on the government to be more fiscally responsible and rein in spending. That's exactly what they're doing, isn’t it?

ANGUS TAYLOR:

Well, let's put it in these terms. There's over $500 billion of spending from the government each year, about 12 or 13 of that is infrastructure. And they've decided the bit they're going to slash is infrastructure. Now, we've opposed $45 billion of spending through the Parliament in recent months. And we said there's a whole series of areas which are just not necessary at the moment, but for those of your listeners who are out on the roads today driving to or from work or elsewhere, you've got a government that is no longer concerned, as far as I can tell, about really critical projects. I mean, to cut the project which connects the M12 to the M7. Let's put that in perspective - that's how you get to the new airport. That's how you get to the new airport. And they've decided, well, the new airport doesn't need anyone to get to it. I mean, you've got a Minister here, who not only  has decided that you can wear higher airfares by having less competition in the airline market, you don't even need to travel to the airport! I mean, this is just crazy stuff.

DEB KNIGHT:

Yeah, well, the New South Wales treasurer Daniel Mookhey, said he's disappointed with a capital D and we've had the Queensland Treasurer, hitting out at the Infrastructure Minister Catherine King as well. But these sort of infrastructure cuts are exactly what the Reserve Bank and the IMF have been calling on the government to do to get on top of inflation.

ANGUS TAYLOR:

Well you know, as I said, this is a tiny part of the overall Federal Budget. There are lots of other places you can look…

DEB KNIGHT:

If you were the treasurer, and you were being told by the Reserve Bank of the IMF to rein in your infrastructure spending because we've got to get on top of inflation, wouldn't it be irresponsible of you not to act?

ANGUS TAYLOR:

No, I don't think that's right at all. I mean, the point I've made is that this is a tiny part of our overall spending, and perhaps the Treasurer needs to speak to those agencies and explain that to them. There's lots of other places to go. But the truth is, the Labor Government wants to cut infrastructure spending, and it wants to spend more on public servants. Do you know how many more public servants Labor's added since they came to government? 10,000. So they're adding 10,000 public servants and then slashing critical road projects. And this is what Labor governments do. And you know, no doubt they encourage agencies to give them that advice. Well, they're the decision makers. They're the ones who set the priorities, and it's clear what the priorities are right now.

DEB KNIGHT:

All right now I want to end on this. A mutual friend of ours, Joel Fitzgibbon, your former sparring partner here on Question Time when we started this segment up originally. I've been in contact with him. He’s on a flight at the moment. He's flying to Perth so he wasn’t able to call in unfortunately. But he did send me a text message - Joel Fitzgibbon - with a question to you, Angus. And he was asking me to ask you “Is it true Angus that you often attribute your success and profile in politics to your time here on 2GB with Joel and Deb on Question time?”

ANGUS TAYLOR:

I have to say I miss Joel. It was wonderful to have him on the program. He became a very good friend. Despite the fact that we disagreed very strongly on things, we became very good friends, and I think this has been an absolutely wonderful segment - a huge tribute to you. And you'll be sorely missed by me. And the debates we've had on this on this segment over what I think is close to four years now. But I think you'll be sorely missed by your listeners too, Deb, and it's a huge tribute to you, that I know as I get around my electorate, I hear often about the work that you've done and this segment. And I'll miss it every bit as much as I'm sure Joel has.

DEB KNIGHT:

Well don't worry, I'll still hold you to account on Money News, because we'll have lots to talk about with you as the Shadow Treasurer. So we'll continue our discussions just at a different time slot - 7pm at night instead of 12.30 on a Friday afternoons. Good on you Angus, I really appreciate you being part of it. And have a wonderful Christmas with you and your family.

ANGUS TAYLOR:

You too.

DEB KNIGHT:

There we are – Angus Taylor the Shadow Treasurer with our last Question Time here on Afternoons.

ENDS.