Topics: China world’s largest military, defence manufacturing, veterans, Anika Wells expenses,

 

E&OE

GARY HARDGRAVE:

I'm delighted to say we're joined in the studio by Shadow Minister for Defence Angus Taylor. Now, do I call you Angus or Gus? What do you prefer?

ANGUS TAYLOR:

I get both.

GARY HARDGRAVE:

You get both.

ANGUS TAYLOR:

Depends how happy my wife is with me. Sometimes it's Angus, sometimes it's Gus.

GARY HARDGRAVE:

So, is it Gus when you're in trouble, or Angus?

ANGUS TAYLOR:

Either way around.

GARY HARDGRAVE:

Okay, well, either way, you're currently in Brisbane, meeting with local small business owners and, of course, talking to veterans’ groups tomorrow. It's good to see you here, but national security, getting ourselves geared up, the world is changing right now, huge changes. I was remarking moments ago about some of the problems that are happening with regards to America's capability versus China. China has eclipsed America now has overtaken they've got rid of the technology gap. They've got the capacity in the air force, the navy, they’ve got more troops. America's not the big powerhouse as far as the world is concerned.

ANGUS TAYLOR:

That's right, and we're seeing the PLA the People's Liberation Army, militarising faster than ever before. The Chinese Communist Party is very focused on having a strong position in our region, Gary, and of course, this affects us greatly, and it's why the Americans, rightly are saying, not only will they need to step up, and are they stepping up in fact, but we need to step up as part of that to make sure that we maintain peace, but you only maintain peace through strength and deterrence, and that's what we have to do.

GARY HARDGRAVE:

I mean, in a past role in the parliament, you had the job Chris Bowen's now got. Now, I think this bloke is actually the single biggest threat to our national security. This pursuit of net zero is kind of killing our capacity to actually contribute the kind of industrial muscle we need to have defence kit.

ANGUS TAYLOR:

Well, you know, we know from history that in order to have a strong military, strong defence force you have to have a strong economy and you can't have that if your energy system is broken, if your industrial base is going backwards and that is exactly what's happening under Chris Bowen and under this government. We desperately need to get our energy system working. We desperately need to get our industrial base working in a way where we can deal with the threats that we have to the north, and they're real. I mean, they're happening every day. We've got a flotilla now that has been heading down in this direction. We've seen really dangerous and provocative actions from the PLA towards the Japanese and ourselves, in fact, and we know we have got to take serious steps, not just to get our military to where it needs to be, but to make sure we've got an economy that can support a strong Defence Force for years to come.

GARY HARDGRAVE:

I mean, the Japanese were our allies in the First World War. I wasn't around, but I read about it, and they were our enemy in the Second but in all seriousness, the Japanese are really cheesed off with us because we haven't said anything in defence of the kind of threats they're feeling from the People's Liberation Army.

ANGUS TAYLOR:

Well, the Opposition has, and we've called this out. The Prime Minister needs to be stepping up and standing with our allies when we see these dangerous, provocative acts from the Chinese Communist Party, it's not good enough. I mean, look, these are dangerous times. We know they're the most dangerous times since the Second World War. We know that we're seeing our military being underfunded. We're seeing our combat ships and aircraft being underutilised. We don't have the resources necessary to get them into the air and on the water. Right now, we're having to get funding to our traditional military in order to fund AUKUS. AUKUS is incredibly important. This is our submarines, the nuclear submarines.

GARY HARDGRAVE:

When are we ever going to get them though.

ANGUS TAYLOR:

Well, I mean this, this is the point. We've got to get serious about it, and it means we've got to make serious investments on the west coast and on the east coast. We don't even know where the submarine base is going to be on the east coast yet, Gary, so this government's got to get serious about very dangerous times and if we don't, we won't just get called out by our allies in the United States. We'll be left flat footed in a situation which has at any time, the potential to escalate. We don't want it to, but the best way to prevent it from escalating is to make sure we're strong.

GARY HARDGRAVE:

Now I've been around long enough to watch restructuring of government departments basically it becomes 18 months of nothing much happening. So, Richard Marles announces the biggest restructure in 50 years of the Defence Department. Talk of bringing in the Australian Ambassador currently in Beijing to head up some part of the submarine programme. There are all sorts of uncertainty. This plays into the hands of even more delays, doesn't it.

ANGUS TAYLOR:

I mean, look this is a restructure for nothing. It's moving bureaucrats around. What we need, and what we're seeing in other countries now is defence procurement, which is what's being restructured. This is buying all the equipment. Is reporting to war fighters. That's what the United States has just done. It's what we're seeing in conflict zones, like in Israel, in Gaza and Middle East and in Ukraine and yet we're moving in exactly the opposite direction. We need to put the war fighters in charge. They know what they need. They know the speed they need it at. They know the sort of technology that is evolving right now in drones and missiles, electronic warfare, cyber, all of these areas which need funding, but it needs agility, and it's only going to have agility if the customer, who is the war fighter is in charge. That is not where this restructure is going and it's going to be 18 months, Gary. You know what happens in government departments when you say the restructure is going to take 18 months? Nothing happens.

GARY HARDGRAVE:

It happens for three and a half years.

ANGUS TAYLOR:

At a pivotal time, at an absolutely pivotal time. So, I think this is an egregious error by the Defence Minister, and I think we need to get serious now about not just funding our defence force, but making sure that they're ready, that they are resilient, that they're agile. We have the people we need, and that we have the sovereign manufacturing we need, the industrial base you mentioned earlier as well.

GARY HARDGRAVE:

Well, I think it's absolutely critical. If we can't make the kit, we can't even build houses here without waiting for the glass to come in from China, God bless them, because nobody seems to be wanting to make glass for buildings anymore. I just saw a train go past with a whole bunch of containers to go and pick up cement that seems to be coming in, cement dust coming in from overseas. I mean, Angus Taylor, this is the problem. Australia is so prone. Our capacity to make stuff for ourselves, for everyday use is missing. How the hell are we going to make stuff for defence use?

ANGUS TAYLOR:

I know, and look, it's actually worse than that. I was out with a small manufacturer this morning that is making components for drones. Drones, of course, are now a critical piece, an essential piece, of modern conflicts. We've seen that in the Ukraine and in the Middle East, they have got sales, significant sales, to the US Defence Force. They're not getting to them to the Australian Defence Force. This is an Australian company, a small Australian company, so we're not actually encouraging the development of this industrial base. We're getting better outcomes from sales to the US Defence Force, rather than the Australian Defence Force. That's simply not good enough.

GARY HARDGRAVE:

I hazard a guess at where you may have been, but I do know of a small business that operated in my old federal electorate when I was the member. I went along and visited this place. It had US Air Force General plaques, you know, like General blah, blah, blah has come and visited in a small, nondescript factory. I don't want to name where it is, because I actually think it's a kind of CIA rated top secret making bits for the Joint Strike Fighter Force. I mean, we do have the capacity to do stuff here.

ANGUS TAYLOR:

We've got incredible manufacturing capacity, advanced manufacturing, and of course, it has changed. I mean, making a drone is very different from making steel, but it is real capability, and they're finding markets these companies overseas, rather than Australia. In Israel, in the United States, in the Ukraine. We need to get serious about it, Gary, and we're not going to get serious about it by moving bureaucrats around on a page.

GARY HARDGRAVE:

Alright. Well, look, we're going to take a quick break because we are a commercial radio station, so we'll keep the lights on. We'll come back. We're talking with Angus Taylor; he's the Shadow Minister for Defence.

[commercial break]

GARY HARDGRAVE:

This is drive with Gary Hardgrave on Brisbane’s 4BC, 11 to five, and live in the studio Angus Taylor, who's the Shadow Minister for Defence. You've just been to America. You've just, I sort of heard a bit of Pete Hegseth, the Secretary of War, as they called it. I heard a bit of swagger in your comments just before. I mean, let's face it, America is really positioning themselves as having if they have to be, they will be aggressive. They're not letting the world doubt.

ANGUS TAYLOR:

Yeah, I think he's getting it right. He's saying we want peace. That's the purpose of the exercise, but we only achieve it through strength and deterrence, and that means the US has to be strong, and their allies have to be strong. We're an ally. We need to have that same strength. We need to have the sovereignty; we need to have the capability. But part of that that we're seeing in the US is a shift to using the private sector in a much smarter way. You know, a lot of the innovation in the world now comes from the private sector, not from government labs or, you know, research corporations or whatever. It comes from private sector businesses, often small businesses who are doing really smart stuff,

GARY HARDGRAVE:

But the Chinese are doing smart stuff too, because they've closed that technology gap between what the US had and the private sector there generated and what they had and yet the West, Australia is just as bad, we seem to be, so hell bent on process, bureaucracy, inquiry, forms being filled in. We're lagging behind.

ANGUS TAYLOR:

 

So, I think the biggest enemy in all of that is bureaucracy. I mean, bureaucracy kills innovation, it kills speed, it kills agility, and it kills the customer focus. We need a focus on the war fighter and putting them in the position they need to be to get the job done, if that's what it comes to and the strength of the war fighter is noticed by our adversaries, that that's how we prevent war in the first place and conflict in the first place and that focus on war fighters is just not there.

GARY HARDGRAVE:

So, you head off to America, obviously, taxpayer funded trip. I hope you completed the paperwork.

ANGUS TAYLOR:

No, actually, I can say to your listeners, it was not paid for by the taxpayer.

GARY HARDGRAVE:

Oh, well, there you go. So, you haven't got a sort of Anika Wells problem? I thought I had a scoop for a moment. What do you think of this whole mess? I don't understand it as a former member, former minister, you know, like you, somebody who had to travel to different places, I don't understand how you can think $1,000 Com Car bill waiting for you outside the tennis is acceptable?

ANGUS TAYLOR:

No, I agree with that, and I think taking the family down for a ski holiday to Thredbo that's not appropriate. Look, whatever the rules are, Gary, there's a pub test, as you know well. That is really important on this stuff, and politicians have to apply judgement to that.

GARY HARDGRAVE:

I think they've got to be even better. They've got to be I mean, they are in the public eye, and it's not a case of during tough times we shouldn't be doing this. I don't think you should be doing it full stop. You've got to be able to face people in your local shopping centres. I always found that was the test for me.

ANGUS TAYLOR:

Well, and I think the way I like to think about it, and I don't pretend to be perfect on all of this stuff, but the way I like to think about it is that small businesses and people out there work very, very hard to get their income, and they pay taxes, and they expect us to try treat that money with enormous respect and if it's not treated with respect, they get angry. And I can understand that.

GARY HARDGRAVE:

Yeah, well, the phones have been melting here for days, and rightly so, and I think it's, I think it's critical we keep asking questions, but the Minister's in witness protection at the moment, she sort of referred herself off to avoid any questions today, on her big day, the social media ban day. 125 years Angus, we've been fighting for freedom in this country, and now we're telling the world we're restricting freedom. It makes no sense to me, but anyway, veteran’s groups, you're meeting with them, what sort of message do you say to them? Because veterans still languish, still worry about where their entitlements come from. Talk about bureaucracy. They have a hell of an awful time.

ANGUS TAYLOR:

They do and they're people who have served our country. In some cases, of course, they've served our country by putting themselves at huge risk and of course, we've lost many Australians in conflicts, and so I think it's incredibly important we show respect to those who have fought for our country and served our country, and that's why I make a point of getting out to veterans groups where I can and making sure that our veterans are getting what is appropriate, given their service.

GARY HARDGRAVE:

Yeah, indeed. So, I guess the other big question that should be asked of you, your name keeps getting mentioned as somebody that could be a leader in the parliamentary Liberal Party. Is the mess behind the parliamentary Liberal Party or does it continue?

ANGUS TAYLOR:

Look, we've got more work to do. We know that, and your listeners will keep saying that to you, I'm sure.

GARY HARDGRAVE:

They're acutely aware

ANGUS TAYLOR:

That's right, Gary, we've got work to do. Look, we've made a hard decision on net zero, but it was the right decision. It's time to move on from the ideological obsessions on energy and get focused on affordability and reliability.

GARY HARDGRAVE:

Mass migrations next?

ANGUS TAYLOR:

Migration is an issue that we have come to a landing on, and I understand there'll be more said on that in the coming days, but it's incredibly important that we have a migration level and migration focus that is right for Australia, not for anyone else, but for us, it has been too high Gary. So, these are important issues. There are other issues as well, but we've got to get our house in order.

GARY HARDGRAVE:

Okay, and there are people coming to this country constantly trying to change the country. I think there's something wrong with the idea that somebody who can't speak English can actually vote in elections, but this is me making policy.

ANGUS TAYLOR:

But Gary, I think what is clear is that Australians expect someone who comes and becomes a citizen of this nation to adopt the basic values of this nation, and that means respecting democracy, respecting the rule of law, respecting our core freedoms, like freedom of speech and if they're not prepared to do that, they shouldn't become citizens in the first place.

GARY HARDGRAVE:

No, that's true. No one holds a gun to their head, but either way, I appreciate you being here and enjoy your time in in Queensland, and I'm sure you will. We love winning football matches against you blokes from down south, Angus Taylor, you can call him Gus, whether you're happy or sad with him, one way or the other. He's been in the studio. Good on you for dropping by.

ENDS.