E&OE

 

KIERAN GILBERT:

 

Let's go live to the Shadow Defence Minister. Angus Taylor, thanks for your time. Angus Taylor I spoke to the Deputy PM and Defence Minister Richard Marles from the Philippines a few moments ago. I'll get your thoughts on the Philippines exercise shortly, but on the Israel question and the accusation that it's appeasement that Australia is engaging in, Mr Marles repudiates that, rejected the notion that this is weakness from the Prime Minister, says that they do support Israel's right to defend itself, but they've also got to be judged by international law and that they, by the same token, also want to support a two-state solution, something that's had bipartisan support in Australia for decades. What do you say?

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

 

Well, I agree we do want to support a two-state solution, but this is not the pathway to achieve it, Kieran. I mean, this is a shameful, moral fail. It's premature recognition of a Palestinian state. To claim that this is an act of international law is just absolute nonsense. The truth is that the preconditions necessary for a peaceful pathway and a sustainable peace in the Middle East are simply not there. Hostages haven't been released. We haven't got agreed borders. Hamas is still active. Hamas is still militarised and is likely to end up playing a role in a future Palestinian government. These are the preconditions necessary to get a sustainable peace and it's a shameful, moral fail that this government has chosen to recognise Palestine without those preconditions being in place. Frankly, I cannot see it being a sustainable outcome and it's incredibly disappointing that the government should break a bipartisan agreement or bipartisan approach to this issue which has stood the test of time until now.

 

KIERAN GILBERT:

 

One of the points that's been made is that the government wants to help support international momentum towards a state while there are still the hopes for a Palestinian state and some of the Israeli ministers, or one in particular, announcing the E1 settlement and says at the same time, this wipes out hope of a Palestinian state. So, the argument being that they're trying to do that in the face of a pressure internally within Israel, which is counter to the notion of a two-state option.

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

 

Well, but Kieran, we all want to see peace in the Middle East. There's bipartisan agreement on moving towards a two-state solution, but you've got to be realistic about what that pathway can look like, and this is rewarding terrorism. It's been praised by terrorists. Hamas is a listed terrorist organisation in this country. They are monsters. They have beheaded people. They have raped women. I mean, they are a disgraceful and brutal organization and whilst Hamas is still active, then the pathway to sustainable peace I think is very limited. So, there is not a pathway in what Labor is proposing here. It is clear that the ideological left in the Labor Party is in control and we want to see peace, but this is not the way to it.

 

KIERAN GILBERT:

 

So, when you look at the situation of the occupation of Gaza City, do you think that that's the right course of action for Israel?

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

 

Well, you know, we can get into every detail of what Israel is doing and debate that, but that's not the big issue here. The big issue here is whether or not there's premature recognition of Palestine in the pathway that Labor is taking and that is clear, that is clear. We do not have those preconditions in place. I can't see for the life of me how international law around recognition of a state is met. That's the convention that's been in place since the 1930s. So, if you want to talk about international law, just frankly it is beyond me how Labor has come to that conclusion. Look, Kieran, as I say, we want to see peace, but this is not the pathway to it. It's rewarding terrorism. It's praised by terrorists, and I think Labor is making a serious mistake and time will demonstrate that.

 

KIERAN GILBERT:

 

When we look at the exercise in the Philippines now, do you support Australia's involvement in those 1,600 personnel on board for that engagement with the Philippines? And it’s important because second to the United States, we're the only one that has that sort of relationship with the Philippines in terms of visiting forces and this sort of level of exercise.

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

 

Yeah, no, that's absolutely right and we do strongly support it, Kieran, I mean we're seeing authoritarian regimes flexing their muscles around the world. We've seen it with Iran, we've seen it obviously with Russia and the Chinese Communist Party and the PLA are clearly flexing their muscles, live fire exercises off the south coast of New South Wales. So, it is absolutely appropriate that we're working closely with good allies from across our region, including the Philippines, the United States of course, and others, Japan. It's essential that we do this. It's also essential that we do our bit in those alliances, make sure that our capability has the funding and the governance and approach that is appropriate. We don't have that funding where it should be right now. We need to do our bit. But these exercises, we strongly support them, and we want to see more work with our strong allies across the region to make sure, always remember the objective here is ongoing sustained peace in the Indo-Pacific, but peace is achieved through strength and alliances, and we need to continue to work on that.

 

KIERAN GILBERT:

 

They’re not without risk though, are they, as we saw recently with Chinese vessels colliding with one another. I know it's a different set up, but they were trying to push a Philippines vessel away. They collided with one another, but it shows you the area, the South China Sea, is one of great tension.

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

 

Well, it is an area of tension but the greatest risk of all is to see conflict in the South China Sea, and we don't want to see that. The best way to avert that risk, to reduce that risk, is to make sure we have a strong group of allies across the region who are working together, who are using deterrence and strength as a means of making sure we maintain that peace and that's an absolutely essential approach and strategy at a time like this.

 

KIERAN GILBERT:

 

Shadow Defence Minister Angus Taylor, thanks, we'll see you next week.

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

 

Good to be with you, Kieran.

 

 

ENDS.