Topics:  Palestinian recognition

 

E&OE

KIERAN GILBERT:

Where do we go to from here? We're going to go straight to the Coalition and get the reaction from Angus Taylor, the Shadow Defence Minister, who joins me live in the studio and it is a big day. I spoke to Andrew about the nature of this. It’s not unexpected. It's been months, if not years, coming since Labor changed its platform.  Your former opposite number, Jim Chalmers, said it's a matter of when, not if. So, we knew it was coming, but still a significant step by the Government in confirming today, Mr Taylor, that when they get to the UN next month, they will recognise a Palestinian state.

ANGUS TAYLOR:

Well, Kieran, I think we all want to see this chapter of tragedy that began on October 7, 2023, come to an end. We want to see peace and we want to see the end of what has been a truly tragic chapter. But the preconditions for that have not been met and I don't think the Government has made the case that they've been met. There hasn't been a release of hostages by Hamas. There is no assurance of demilitarization of Hamas, and Hamas having no role in a future government. There's no clear commitment to peaceful co-existence and agreed borders and I mean, these are the preconditions. These include the things that I've just laid out are the sorts of preconditions that we know are absolutely necessary if we're going to have a lasting and sustained peace in the Middle East. And I have to say, I just listened to that press conference from the Prime Minister and the Foreign Minister,  and I came away no clearer that those preconditions have been met than I had felt before. The risk here, Kieran, is that this is rewarding terrorists. This is a reward to Hamas for what they started on October 7. That sets a dreadful precedent. The preconditions clearly haven't been met, and the Government hasn't made the case.

KIERAN GILBERT:

 

You said it's the risk of that. Do you think it is? 

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

 

Well, of course, if you start going down this path, I think Hamas will be very pleased with their work and that's exactly the opposite of what we want to see…

 

KIERAN GILBERT:

 

But the Prime Minister pointed out that this is not a... that Hamas doesn't support a two-state solution. They want a one-state solution.

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

 

Of course.

 

KIERAN GILBERT:

 

So, by committing and supporting two states, that Australia is essentially making redundant, that terrorist group, which is what the Government's aim has been from the outset.

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

 

Well, we've all wanted a two-state solution for a long while. That's been a bipartisan position. That's not the issue here. The issue here is whether the preconditions necessary for a lasting peace are in place and I don't think the Government has made the case that those preconditions have been met or are going to be met. I mean, there's no satisfaction that hostages will be released. We've got no clarity that Hamas will be excluded from this future government or fully demilitarised. We haven't got a commitment, a clear commitment to peaceful coexistence and recognition of Israel, agreed borders. These were the preconditions that we've all talked about for a long while. They haven't been met and that final question from the Foreign Minister, or that was answered by the Foreign Minister about whether these are conditions that will be determinative of whether or not the Government recognises Palestine. Well, I have to say all we got from her was hand-waving. There is no clarity from the Government on these preconditions, and frankly, that’s because they haven't been met. 

 

KIERAN GILBERT:

 

The Prime Minister said that this is a practical measure to add to momentum towards recognising a Palestinian state and clearly put pressure on Israel along the way, why is this not... why should it not be seen as a practical measure to help maintain that momentum?

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

 

Well, it's not that. It's recognition of Palestine. I mean, that's what they're committing to here. It's not a step on the way. This is the actual recognition and the final answer from the Foreign Minister made that clear. This is not conditional. This is not conditional. They want things to happen along the way, but they’re committing here and now. Now, there’s a very clear precondition... They're very clear...

 

KIERAN GILBERT:

 

Building international support and they've done it in conjunction with the UK, the Canadian Government.

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

 

Well, we all want to see international support for the release of hostages. We all want to see international support for the demilitarisation of Hamas. We all want to see support for the recognition and peaceful coexistence of Palestine and Israel, and the recognition of Israel as part of that. We all want to see commitment towards agreed borders. The trouble is, Kieran, we're not there yet and the risk is that this is then premature, that it doesn't bring the tragedy that we've seen to an end, that it's ongoing, and we don't see the lasting peace, which we all want. I mean, this is about achieving a lasting peace. It's just, I think, it's completely unconvincing from the Government that the preconditions necessary for a lasting peace have been met here. 

 

KIERAN GILBERT:

 

When we look at the broader crisis, obviously, the PM made reference there to the Netanyahu Government rapidly expanding illegal settlements and settler violence in the Palestinian territory. So, clearly, that's part of the mix here as well, that the Government, they look at the occupation of Gaza City as well in recent days. They look at the various other behaviour of elements of the Netanyahu Government and say there needs to be pressure put on our friend, that's their view. 

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

 

Well, you've got to remember what the origins of this conflict are. The most recent origins, of course, were October 7, 2023, a tragic and brutal attack by Hamas on Israelis and Israel, and the ongoing fallout from that is still there. We haven't seen the remaining hostages released. We certainly haven't seen Hamas fully demilitarised and we haven't seen Hamas recognise Israel and I don't think there's any sign that they're going to. I mean, as I say, there’s pretty clear preconditions here that people have talked about for a long while. If the Government's walking away from those preconditions, which it appears to be doing, then they should be clear about that.

 

KIERAN GILBERT:

 

Angus Taylor, we appreciate your time. We'll talk to you soon.

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

 

Good on you, Kieran.

 

 

ENDS.