E&OE

 

LAURA JAYES: Joining me live is the Shadow Defence Minister, Angus Taylor. Angus, I'm sure you want to get into that wealth debate, but let's do that another time as well. Let's talk about this meeting that Anthony Albanese is going to have in a few hours’ time. What does a successful meeting here look like, do you think?

 

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well, it's good to be with you, Laura. Obviously, the relationship with China is one where we gain greatly from trade, from having a strong economic relationship with China and that's been a huge benefit to Australia for many years. But we should also be clear that there's real strategic challenges and we do have differences of view in that area. Our strong alliance with the United States is fundamental to making sure we have peace through deterrence and strength in our region. And I think we can balance those things. But it's important that the Prime Minister do exactly that in that conversation with the Chinese President. We should never step back from recognising the importance of having strong defence in this country and strong alliances with other like-minded countries in the Indo-Pacific.

 

LAURA JAYES: Our strongest ally in the United States… Somehow, there was a leak in the Financial Times that somehow Australia should be answering well ahead of time. What would we do in the event of China invading Taiwan and would we commit troops or assets to any US led effort there? That really put us and Anthony Albanese in an impossible position, didn't it? What answer can we possibly give?

 

ANGUS TAYLOR: Can I say Laura, Anthony Albanese has put himself in the impossible position because he's not spending what is necessary to make sure that we have the defence force we need for what he himself has said is the most challenging strategic environment since the Second World War.

 

LAURA JAYES: So, are you saying you’re now willing to go to 3.5%, which is what Hegseth asked Marles for? Because you weren’t in the election campaign.

 

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well, let's be clear. Right now we're at 2% and we committed to getting to 3 and we should be seeking to get to at least 3. So look, that's a big move up. It's a 50% increase on where we stand right now, actually much more than a 50% increase in absolute terms and yet this Prime Minister is not prepared to do that. He is not prepared to admit that his own Defence Strategic Review is not properly funded. He's not prepared to admit that we're underfunding our investment in critical facilities in the north of Australia, critical emerging submarine facilities like Henderson in Western Australia. He's not prepared to admit that our defence force doesn't have the people that its own target says it should have. And he's not prepared to admit that we are on the verge of having what ASPI has called a paper defence force and that's simply not good enough at a time like this.

 

LAURA JAYES: Would we help out the United States in the event that our support was requested by our American ally? How do you answer that question now in 2025, if they sought our support, being the US in the event of a Taiwan conflict, what would Australia do?

 

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well Laura, you can't codify every possible scenario around a conflict, and you've never been able to do that and it's unrealistic to do that. The Americans won't do that and nor will we. What we can do is jointly commit to peace through strength and deterrence in the Taiwan Strait and our region more generally. That's what we all want to see…

 

LAURA JAYES: Was that an unfair question by some unknown…

 

ANGUS TAYLOR: As you say, this is all anonymous and leaks and so on. But what we can do is have governance arrangements around our alliance with the United States, where we do make a joint commitment to peace through deterrence and strength in our region. I think that is entirely reasonable. That means we have to do our bit. Look, the other point I'd make here about the Prime Minister is he seems to be suggesting that there's some tradeoff between sovereignty and alliances. There's never been a tradeoff between sovereignty and alliances. We can be a sovereign nation. We must be a sovereign nation by having strong alliances. That's how the world has always worked, Laura. It shows just how naive he is, or indeed deliberately naive he is to the situation we're facing in our part of the world. The most challenging since the Second World War. We've got authoritarian regimes that are flexing their muscles, the Chinese Communist Party that is seeking a massive military buildup or executing a massive military buildup and so, we have to be clear about where our strategic position is. Jointly working with allies like the United States and Japan and India and others across our region to make sure we have that peace through strength and deterrence is an absolute priority right now and yet it seems that the priority of this Prime Minister is to meet with the President of China rather than the President of the United States. Well, the United States is our core strategic ally and has helped to underpin peace and security in our region since the Second World War. And that means meeting with him face to face and making sure we nut out how this alliance and how AUKUS is going to work is incredibly important right now.

 

LAURA JAYES: Just one quick question. Not related directly to your portfolio, but I'm sure this affects you personally. The RBA has proposed a complete ban on credit card surcharging. This would save people around $1.2 billion a year. Of course, it's not as easy and neat as that headline would suggest, but your initial thoughts on that?

 

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well, I haven't had a chance to read the report, Laura. It's only just out so and I will have a look at it.

 

LAURA JAYES: The principle?

 

ANGUS TAYLOR: But all I would say is number one, I know how incredibly frustrating these surcharges are for consumers and it is absolutely clear, I hear it all the time, a lack of transparency in some cases about those surcharges and it is frustrating. We've also got to balance that with the need for small businesses, in particular, to be able to survive and maintain some level of margin, to be able to invest in their businesses. That tradeoff has to be managed carefully. So we'll look at what's being proposed by the RBA. I think trying to deal with the challenge and frustration of surcharges right now is an important issue and we certainly are alive to it.

 

LAURA JAYES: Angus Taylor, great to have you back on AM Agenda. We will see you soon.

 

ANGUS TAYLOR: Good on you, Laura.

 

ENDS