E&OE

 

LAURA JAYES: Joining me now is the Shadow Defence Minister, Angus Taylor. Angus, thanks so much for your time on the program. Let's talk defence spending, because it is front and centre here in Washington D.C. We just heard with a former trade negotiator and adviser to Trump that he's certainly looking at the level of defence spending allies are making. What level do you think we need to go to?

 

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well, we clearly need to get a much higher level of defence expenditure, Laura, and it's good to be with you. We've said that we should be at least 3% of GDP. That's about a percentage point up. We're currently sitting on about 2%, and we need that because we desperately need to spend on a whole series of initiatives that put us in a position where we are sovereign over our own destiny and importantly, we deal with what is the most dangerous time since the Second World War, the most uncertain strategic time since the Second World War. The Prime Minister himself has said that. But on the other hand, the government has put out their Defence Strategic Review and it's clear that it's underfunded in a whole series of areas. We haven't made progress on manufacturing our own missiles and we know these are critical capabilities at a time like this. We've underfunded Henderson, which is the shipyard that will be critical to developing nuclear subs and making sure that AUKUS realises its full potential. We haven't hardened our northern facilities, which is so important at a time like this. We're not investing in the drone and counter-drone capability that it's very clear coming out of Ukraine and Iran that this is a capability that is more important than ever. So, there's a whole series of areas, including people, personnel. We're way below the government's own targets in terms of personnel recruited to our Australian Defence Force. And it's so desperate now that ASPI, one of the leading think tanks in the country, has said we are at risk of having a paper Australian Defence Force. And that is a very dangerous position to be in at a time like this.

 

LAURA JAYES: Certainly is. I get the feeling, though, Trump doesn't look for detail, he looks for headlines and we know that Hegseth asked Marles to go to 3.5%. The Coalition isn't even willing to say that's where we should go. So, you're sticking with your policy that you took to the election, the 3%, basically?

 

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well, Laura, that 3% is a hell of a lot closer to 3.5% than is two and we're at this point focusing on what we know we need to make sure we've got the sovereign capability we need, the readiness we need, the agility we need, the people we need at a time like this and you know, we've got to get moving on this. There's no time for dilly dallying around anymore. Labor isn't serious about it. Albanese has come out and said just in recent days that he is not interested in raising defence spending at a time like this. He is not putting his money where his mouth is when he says it's the most uncertain time since the Second World War. But at a time when authoritarian regimes are flexing their muscles in Iran, in Russia, of course, and the buildup of the military by the Chinese Communist Party, we need to put our money where our mouth is. We need to get serious and we need to make sure that the US alliance underpins our sovereignty, underpins our agility and underpins what is a crucial alliance and has been and has underpinned global security for a long, long time, including in our region.

 

LAURA JAYES: Well, Penny Wong's here at the moment. She'll meet with Marco Rubio tomorrow. There's a lot of focus on the 9th of July, which is this deadline to get rid of the tariffs that have been imposed. Now, Australia has a tariff of 10% on goods coming into America. But once this deadline rolls around, that might actually be a winning position. How will you gauge success if we have got 10% by the time July 9 rolls around, you got other countries like Japan with 25 or 35. Couldn't we chalk that up as a win?

 

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well Laura, having tariffs imposed on Australian exports, I don't know how you chalk that up as a win, frankly. The bigger issue here is that we can't even get our Prime Minister into a meeting with the President of the United States. He's more interested and more able to get a meeting with the President of China than the President of the United States. Now, this alliance has underpinned our security, our economic prosperity for a long, long time, Laura and our Prime Minister can't even get a meeting with the President of the United States. We've got to get serious about this. Whether it's on the economic side, the trade side, on the national security and defence side, we've got to get serious about it. But it seems to me that the Prime Minister has never had any great love for the US alliance.

 

LAURA JAYES: Why do you think that is? Why do you think he can’t get a meeting and why does it matter so much?

 

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well, it matters because this is an alliance that has underpinned our security in our region for 70 years and it's critical to our economic prosperity. They're wanting to impose tariffs, so we've got to have frank discussions of friends who don't always agree, but who have stood alongside each other in every war, every major war since Federation. I mean, this is a crucial alliance, economic and defence. The truth of the matter is whether Anthony Albanese likes the US president or not, the alliance is bigger than that. But it seems to me he's more interested in his meetings with the President of China than the President of the United States.

 

LAURA JAYES: We've had a big AI company, US AI company in Canberra this week and he's basically arguing for a tax exemption for AI companies given that there would be a massive uptake and the productivity benefits would be there for Australian companies. What do you think about that?

 

ANGUS TAYLOR: Well, I'm not sure. I haven't seen that proposal. But, you know, at face value, on instinct, providing a tax break for AI right now is not where I'd be focused. I think AI uptake is happening very quickly, independent of any tax breaks. We will continue to, and we've got to make sure we use it in a way which is good for us, which drives our economic prosperity, which drives prosperity and drives rising real disposable incomes, a rising standard of living and that's the exact opposite of what we've seen in recent years. I don't think a tax break is necessary for that. I do think making sure that we're making the most of it, we understand it well, we have the skills we need at a time like this, all of those things are incredibly important. But most important, we do have to see investment in this country. We do have to see ongoing investment. I think we'll do that if we get the settings right. But right now, getting an approval for a resource project is incredibly difficult under this government. We're seeing layers and layers of new regulation being added. It's harder and harder to invest in Australia. We've got to make it easier.

 

LAURA JAYES: Angus Taylor, great to talk to you. Thanks so much for your time. We'll see you soon.

 

ANGUS TAYLOR: Good to be with you, Laura.

 

ENDS