Topics: Soaring energy prices under Labor, Supermarket powers, Death of Australian aid worker

E&OE

LISA MILLAR:

Let's get more and bring in the Shadow Treasurer, Angus Taylor. Good morning, welcome to the program.

ANGUS TAYLOR:

Thanks for having me.

LISA MILLAR:

So the Prime Minister is going to send a big signal that energy bill relief is going to be part of the budget. You'd be welcoming that, I imagine?

ANGUS TAYLOR:

Well, we welcome anything that's going to drive down the price of energy, because it's gone up very significantly. Typical household is paying around $1,000 more than they expected at this time, having been promised a significant reduction.

LISA MILLAR:

So you don't think it worked, what we saw last year?

ANGUS TAYLOR:

Well, we've seen big increases in prices, Lisa, and that's the reality. So, the typical Australian household, as I say, $1,000 more than they would have expected at this time. And that's a lot of pain at a time when we're seeing big increases in calls to help lines, whether it's for household debt, or small businesses, we've seen an 82% increase in calls to help lines for small businesses in the last little while. We're seeing a lot of pain there, big increases in business failures that are occurring now. I'm seeing it in my electorate, an enormous amount of pain under this cost of living crisis. And it's not letting up.

LISA MILLAR:

But just back on that energy bill relief, it was $1.5 billion relief bill, negotiated with the states and the federals. Are you saying that the first package didn't work? What you wouldn't support it being extended?

ANGUS TAYLOR:

It's not a matter of that - Labor's policies haven't worked. That's the point. So we've seen a very big increase in energy bills, not just for households, obviously we have seen it for households, but also for small businesses. And that pain is very, very real. It's very real in my part of the world, in regional Australia, we're seeing the extraordinary outcomes of that. Manufacturing businesses really struggling, really reliant on affordable, reliable energy. So we do need downward pressure on energy prices, the government promised it, we're holding them to account on that, and we will continue to.

LISA MILLAR:

Well it's a real balance, isn't it, because you need downward pressure on inflation as well. And we've seen a big drop over the years. So a lot of those, you'd have to give credit to the government, for a lot of those policies that have seen that drop in inflation.

ANGUS TAYLOR:

Well there's been no drop in prices. I mean, we're continuing to see sharp increase in prices since Labor came to power, around 10% on average, alongside 12 interest rate increases. And that's real pain that Australians continue to feel. I get around the country, making a point when I go into different parts of the country, going to food banks, and we're seeing people going to food banks at the moment, Lisa, that we've just never seen before. People, they've got jobs, they've got mortgages, they just can't make ends meet. It's humiliating for them. It's incredibly difficult. This cost of living crisis is having real consequences on the ground that are quite extraordinary right now.

LISA MILLAR:

You've agreed now with the Nats that you'll look at this restrictions on supermarkets, what kind of powers do you want to tackle the supermarkets?

ANGUS TAYLOR:

Well, I'm a big believer and the opposition is a big believer in good competition policy and making sure we're putting downward pressure on prices wherever we can. And of course groceries is at the sharp end of that...

LISA MILLAR:

But talk us through the nuts and bolts of it, like what do you actually want to do with supermarkets? Do you want to be able to split them up? Because a lot of the critics say you're just going to make it worse.

ANGUS TAYLOR:

We want lower prices, we want lower prices. That's ultimately the goal. Good competition policy delivers better outcomes for consumers, long has...

LISA MILLAR:

Everyone wants to lower prices, but what kind of power do you...

ANGUS TAYLOR:

Well, let's, we’ll work our way through it. We've begun these discussions. What we're not going to do is something that's ham fisted, that's not going to work. And so we'll make sure whatever we put forward is sensible and can put downward pressure on prices. That has to be the goal of all good competition policy. We have seen, to answer your question, we have seen the supermarkets' use of control of land, particularly in regional areas to prevent competition coming into the marketplace. We know new competitors in the market have always helped. We've seen that with the entry of Aldi in Australia, that's been helpful to put downward pressure on prices. And we want to see more of that. So that's the focus, Lisa, I'm not going to announce our policies.

LISA MILLAR:

When will...

ANGUS TAYLOR:

We'll work our way through...we're not going to do something ham fisted. But it's important to move on this quickly.

LISA MILLAR:

Do you accept the criticism from the supermarkets in particular that you could end up with less competition in some of these areas because who operates the stores, how to staff move around, farmers negotiating contracts. I mean, there's a lot of risk with your plan.

ANGUS TAYLOR:

Well, we haven't announced the plan, but we will...

LISA MILLAR:

We'll you'd like to break up the supermarkets...

ANGUS TAYLOR:

Yeah but I tell you what we will do, we'll make sure any plan we put forward is one which will put downward pressure on prices. That has to be the goal for consumers. And it has to be fair for farmers and other suppliers too. We know that a good competitive supermarket sector can not just be good for consumers, it can be good for suppliers like farmers.

LISA MILLAR:

Can I turn to what's happening in Israel? Because we're now - and the Gaza strip in particular - we're now hearing from the founder of this aid group, that Israel has been systematically targeting the cars of aid workers. We're talking about the death of an Australian here. What needs to happen now? Do you believe that Israel will deliver an open and transparent explanation and investigation?

ANGUS TAYLOR:

Well they're truly tragic circumstances. There's no question about that. I think the whole situation there is truly tragic and has been right from the start from those deaths we saw early on...

LISA MILLAR:

Yes but I'm talking about this in particular.

ANGUS TAYLOR:

Well they are very serious allegations, I'm not in a position to be able to assess the veracity of those allegations, they are very serious. And what we know is the whole situation is truly tragic. We do want to see an end to it, but it has to be on reasonable terms.

LISA MILLAR:

Do you trust that you'll get - that the world will get a clear and full explanation from Israel?

ANGUS TAYLOR:

Israel has always been forthcoming with what they see the situation as being. And I think it's important that we do get an explanation on that. But let me say...

LISA MILLAR:

Because how could Israel have misidentified...can I just ask how could Israel have misidentified an aid vehicle?

ANGUS TAYLOR:

Well this is an allegation, and I'm not gonna get into allegations like that. I don't know, Lisa and I'm not in a position...

LISA MILLAR:

Well it's not an allegation, because they've said that they did misidentify...

ANGUS TAYLOR:

Well it's an allegation being made...

LISA MILLAR:

Well no, Israel has said...

ANGUS TAYLOR:

Oh you're talking about Israel, sorry...

LISA MILLAR:

They have misidentified an aid vehicle. How does that happen?

ANGUS TAYLOR:

Well you know, these are situations of war. That's what we're facing right now in Israel and Gaza. And it is a tragic set of circumstances.

LISA MILLAR:

So the Benjamin Netanyahu line that this happens in war is something that you accept?

ANGUS TAYLOR:

War is tragic. War is tragic. And this is a very tragic set of circumstances. We saw an attack from Hamas that started this off, which was truly extraordinary. And these are the consequences of these sorts of actions. We don't want to see more deaths in Gaza. We don't want to see more tragedy flowing from what was started some time back. But at the end of the day, war has terrible, terrible consequences. It is incumbent on Israel and anyone else in a war to limit the impact on citizens and others and aid workers. Of course it is, absolutely.

LISA MILLAR:

And is Israel doing that?

ANGUS TAYLOR:

Well, as I say, these are allegations that are being made about the intent of Israel, that I think needs genuine scrutiny. Misidentification is never good. And I think Israel has been very clear, as you point out, on the fact that that has occurred. But look, it is incumbent on Israel to do what it can to avoid these sorts of tragedies. But we've got to respect the fact that Israel was attacked. There are still many people who are being carried as hostages. They have asked for them to be released. They haven't been and the tragedy moves on.

LISA MILLAR:

Angus Taylor, thanks for coming in.

ANGUS TAYLOR:

Good on you, thanks Lisa.