Topics: Marles US visit, US-Australia Alliance, AUKUS, Net zero

 

E&OE

 

PATRICIA KARVELAS:

 

And Angus Taylor joins me in the studio. Welcome to the program.

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

 

Good to be with you, PK.

 

PATRICIA KARVELAS:

 

You've gone in pretty hard criticising the Government. The Pentagon spokesperson, Sean Parnell, has put out a statement and he says it was a meeting.

 

He welcomed the opportunity, Pete Hegseth, to meet in person with the Deputy Prime Minister Marles, for the third time this year. Their meeting at the White House on Tuesday was coordinated in advance. Doesn't it settle the issue? 

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

 

Well, I don't know, PK, because we've had so many different versions of this and it keeps changing and probably will change again. I think that the material issue here is what progress are we making in shoring up AUKUS, in shoring up the US alliance at a time which is the most dangerous since the Second World War, where authoritarian regimes are flexing their muscles and we need a strong alliance and we need a strong AUKUS and we want to see progress on this and that's why we're asking the questions, and questions need to be continued to be asked of the Defence Minister and of the Prime Minister. The point that James has been making is that we need to see a face-to-face meeting between the President of the United States and the Prime Minister to shore up that critical relationship and that critical arrangement around AUKUS.

 

PATRICIA KARVELAS:

 

But James Paterson also downplayed the drama around meeting-not-meeting and now...

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

 

Well, I don't think James Paterson is downplaying the importance of AUKUS…

 

PATRICIA KARVELAS:

 

Not of AUKUS, that's not what I was saying.

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

 

But this is the point. This is what it's about. That’s why, let's bring it back to the substantive issue, which is the future of AUKUS, the future of the US alliance and alongside that and for reasons that are important for us, getting our defence spending to a level which is appropriate for the circumstances we face, and to fund the Government's own Defence Strategic Review and Plan. We need to see this Government getting serious about defending our country, defending our region, keeping peace in the Indo-Pacific at a very dangerous time.

 

PATRICIA KARVELAS:

 

So, we've got the Deputy Prime Minister and Defence Minister, he literally changed everything to run to the US to meet with Pete Hegseth we know now because the Pentagon has confirmed. The Vice President JD Vance who I understand he is building this relationship with isn't that doing everything you can to ensure...

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

 

Well, I don't know PK…

 

PATRICIA KARVELAS:

 

Isn't that the point?

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

 

What has come out of these meetings? And my question today in Question Time…

 

PATRICIA KARVELAS:

 

Well, the US hasn't pulled out of AUKUS.

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

 

Great, that's good news! But the truth is there's some serious questions that are being asked about AUKUS and the Alliance by the United States. We need to give them assurance on our commitment.  We need to give them assurance that we're serious about the Alliance. We need to give assurance that we are serious about coordinated, integrated deterrence in our region, about strength to achieve.

 

PATRICIA KARVELAS:

 

So, what should Richard Marles or the Prime Minister when he gets the chance, what should they be offering?

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

 

Well, the first thing they should be saying is that we are getting serious about funding our Defence Force. We're not going to have a paper Defence Force, as ASPI has put it. We are going to properly fund AUKUS and all that is necessary for our Defence Force to be effective at this time, and the Americans rightly and understandably want that assurance. But Australians want that assurance too because it's important for us.

 

PATRICIA KARVELAS:

 

Okay, so you think that Richard Marles should have turned up with a bigger cheque? Is that the kind of approach.

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

 

Well, I think Richard Marles should be getting serious about defending our nation and our region and keeping peace in our region at this important time, and that includes strengthening our alliance with the United States and with the UK and other allies. 

 

PATRICIA KARVELAS:

 

Look, lots of independent observers have made the point that the US is operating in a pretty chaotic way and there's lots of chaos coming out of the US. Do you have any sympathy with any government having to deal with this kind of administration?

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

 

I've got to say, the chaos we saw this week was from Richard Marles time and time again.

 

PATRICIA KARVELAS:

 

Was he responsible for this? He flew to the US and was trying...

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

 

Well, he changed his mind and made conflicting statements about this on multiple occasions during the course of the week. But look, the important point here is we are barracking for a strong defence force, for a strong US Alliance, for a strong AUKUS. We don't think the Government is doing what is necessary to achieve all of those things and we're going to continue to ask hard questions of the Government about why they aren't delivering what is needed at this time.

 

PATRICIA KARVELAS:

 

I've observed a different tone between some on your front bench and others in terms of the strength and the criticism of the Government on national security issues from Defence to, of course, this issue around the IRGC in Iran.

 

Is there unity in the Coalition about, you know, how to pursue these issues?

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

 

Well, absolutely. I mean, we've got authoritarian regimes flexing their muscles around the world right now and I don't think there's anyone in the Coalition who is not concerned about that, and who doesn’t want to see an appropriate treatment of those circumstances by the Government and that's why we've taken the positions we have. I mean, we have a position, as an Opposition, as a Coalition on defence spending, on getting our defence spending to 3% of GDP.

 

PATRICIA KARVELAS:

 

Yeah, but on that issue, but on the issue of criticising the Government, because I've got a quote from...

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

 

Well, that's a criticism of the Government, because the Government is not providing that funding.

 

PATRICIA KARVELAS:

 

The Government just today say you're desperately hoping the nation fails on the US relationship. Do you want that?

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

 

No, look, I am a great believer in the importance of the US Alliance, PK, and you'll find nothing in my history other than support for that. I want it to succeed.

 

PATRICIA KARVELAS:

 

But that would mean you want the Government to succeed, right?

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

 

Yes, but we also need the Government to do what is necessary for it to succeed and they're not, and I think we see expert after expert saying that we are not funding our defence force as is needed. We are paying a high price for that. We're seeing ships that are not in service when they should be. We're seeing recruitment, which is failing versus the Government's targets in this area, we're not seeing the agility we need. We see procurement processes that are bureaucratic and sclerotic.  Everything is moving too slowly at a time when we need to move fast and this is not just my view, PK. This is the view of expert after expert in this area.

 

PATRICIA KARVELAS:

 

Another question just entirely on a different issue before I let you go, because I've been talking to many people about it this week. The net zero policy and getting a sort of final policy on this. Would you like it to happen sooner than later? I spoke to Andrew Hastie on this program. He was sitting in your chair, and he said to me between one and three months, you can't keep waiting. Do you agree?

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

 

Well, I do think we have to deal with these issues quickly. But what's coming at us and the Government, frankly, is that they are working towards a commitment to their 2035 targets. We want to see a policy. Yep, we believe in bringing down emissions, it's important, but we also want to ensure that we're not driving up the price of electricity, that industry can survive and succeed in this country.

 

PATRICIA KARVELAS:

 

So, you do think it needs to be clarified by the end of the year?

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

 

Well, I think the Government is going to...

 

PATRICIA KARVELAS:

 

No, but on your side...

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

 

Well, so let me finish, because I was starting to answer that question. I do think the Government is going to lay out its policy on the 2035 targets before COP, it has to do that and so we have to take a position on those targets. That's just not an if, but or maybe, we've got to take a position on it and that's an important policy issue. I think the Government is at risk of putting serious impacts on our economy, on our farmers, on our industry, on consumers and I'm deeply concerned that that's going to have a big negative impact on our economy and that's a debate that the Government is going to trigger and we have to come to a position on it.

 

PATRICIA KARVELAS:

 

Thank you so much for joining us.

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

 

Good to be with you, PK.

 

 

ENDS.