Topics: Labor's defence restructure, provocative CCP naval activity, immigration, Liberal party leadership

E&OE

PATRICIA KARVELAS:  

Angus Taylor, welcome to the program.

 

ANGUS TAYLOR: 

Good to be with you. PK,

 

PATRICIA KARVELAS:  

Big announcement today, the government says the biggest announcement in the defence space in 50 years. What's your reaction to this new agency? Do you support the principle of focusing on delivery?

 

ANGUS TAYLOR: 

Well, the focus first and foremost, PK has to be on getting equipment and capability into the hands of our brave men and women who are prepared to fight for our country. And there's nothing in this announcement that gives us any confidence that we'll be any closer to where we need to be on that. There's no increase in funding, and we know our ADF, our Defence Force, is chronically underfunded. ASPI has told us that we're at risk of having a paper Defence Force. We need more agility. We need more sovereignty, more control over critical items that we would need in a conflict. And as I say, there is nothing in this announcement other than moving bureaucrats around. Now, that may or may not be a good idea. We'll look closely at it, but we need far more than that if we're going to deal with what are the most dangerous circumstances we've faced since the Second World War.

 

PATRICIA KARVELAS:  

Sure, but this is essentially about ensuring that the assets we do have we're doing the right thing with. Have you been briefed by the government on this?

 

ANGUS TAYLOR: 

No, we haven't. But as I say, what we know is expert after expert is telling us that our defence force is chronically underfunded. I mean, we've seen dramatic changes in the way conflict is occurring around the world. Technology is seriously disrupting defense and conflict, whether it's in drones or missile defense, or indeed, undersea maritime technologies, we're seeing dramatic changes PK. We know that we're underfunded to deal with these circumstances. We know that we don't have the funding we need. We absolutely need if AUKUS is to be a success and we're to do all the other things we need to be able to do, and that the government's only answer to this is to move bureaucrats around! Now that and how may not be a necessary condition for success, but it sure isn't sufficient.

 

PATRICIA KARVELAS:  

But isn't it? Before you go chucking money at potentially bad money, don't you have to do this to ensure that the kind of spending we do have is every cent is delivered and actually used well, which is the premise of this announcement?

 

ANGUS TAYLOR: 

Well, there's much we need to do. We need to get beyond rhetoric to readiness. We need to have more sovereign manufacturing. We need more agility at a time when technology disruption is really hitting hard. We need to have more people, and we know that the government has not reached the sorts of people targets that they've set for themselves. So all of these things are necessary if we're going to get to where we need to go. And as I say, the government's own Defence Strategic Review has told us that we need to get to at least 3% of GDP or more. The government is showing no signs of wanting to get there. We've got a chronically underfunded Defence Force, and we desperately need to get better, more innovative equipment and capability into the hands of our brave men and women who work in our Defence Force, and there's no sign that we're any closer to that PK.

 

PATRICIA KARVELAS:  

Do you accept there were cost blowouts on the former Coalition government's watch?

 

ANGUS TAYLOR: 

Oh, you're the commentator. I mean, of course [Interuption]

 

PATRICIA KARVELAS:  

It's a question. I'm not...

 

ANGUS TAYLOR: 

Of course there were projects that went well and projects that went less well. I mean, that's what you'd expect over any time period of of any government. We've seen that right through Australian history. But what we what we want to see now is a properly funded Defence Force. We want to see readiness, not rhetoric. We want to make sure that we've got that sovereign manufacturing capability for critical items like armaments and and I know GWEO has gone into place. It's, this is an organization designed to achieve that, and there's a restructuring that's been announced today, but we've got to get beyond moving bureaucrats around on the page to outcomes and delivery, and after three and a half years, we're well short of where we need to be, PK, and frankly, there's nothing in today's announcement that gives me any confidence that we're going to get to where we need to be.

 

PATRICIA KARVELAS:  

Okay, so in principle, do you support it or is there a question mark around that?

 

ANGUS TAYLOR; 

As I say, we'll look closely at it. And sometimes moving bureaucrats around might be a necessary part of a broader plan, but what we're lacking here is the broader plan. We desperately need that at a time the most dangerous strategic circumstances since the Second World War PK. We've seen conflicts around the world, in the Middle East and in the Ukraine and grey zone conflict, of course, in the Indo Pacific. We've seen circumnavigation of Australia in recent times, live firing exercises. This is a dangerous time. Okay, and we need a Defence Force that is genuinely ready for conflict, not because we want conflict, but because we want to deter it, and strength is necessary for deterrence.

 

PATRICIA KARVELAS: 

Australia is monitoring a Chinese naval flotilla that is traveling through the Philippine Sea with an unknown destination. Is this what we should be doing? Are you happy with what we know?

 

ANGUS TAYLOR: 

Of course, we should be doing it, but we should also be be sending a strong message to the PLA, to the Chinese Communist Party about what's acceptable and unacceptable. And the circumnavigation of Australia with live firing exercises off the south coast of New South Wales not long ago was not acceptable, and we need to be clear about that. We also need to be in a position, of course, of strength, and that's why what I've said earlier about our defence funding, our defence capability, is so critical.

 

PATRICIA KARVELAS:  

Okay, so you say this is the right thing to do, to monitor it, but of course, you should be sending a strong message. What would that message look like?

 

ANGUS TAYLOR: 

The strong message to the Chinese Communist Party is that, yes, we are seeing rapid militarisation by the Chinese Communist Party, but we also want to see peace and prosperity in our region, and we don't want to see actions taken that might threaten that peace and prosperity. I mean, the circumnavigation of Australia with live firing off the coast of Australia is pretty provocative.  I think Australians would agree with that.

 

PATRICIA KARVELAS:  

I agree, and the Prime Minister raised it. This is now a new incident that we're monitoring that we don't yet know what will eventuate? Are you saying the Prime Minister, I mean, he's on leave this week, but the Acting Prime Minister, Richard Marles that they should be preemptively raising that?

 

ANGUS TAYLOR: 

No, no, I haven't said that. What I've said is we should be monitoring it. We failed to monitor last time appropriately. We didn't know what was going on until we were informed by others about it. PK, we've got to do better than that, and let's see how this unfolds. We'll be watching it closely, as I'm sure you will be as well.

 

PATRICIA KARVELAS:  

Okay, just on some other issues: immigration. There are reports in the papers that you will opt for an Australian values test as part of the incoming migration policy. An Australian values test won't actually change the intake of people, though, coming to the country, will it?

 

ANGUS TAYLOR: 

Well, I mean, this is lots of speculation. I'm not going to comment on speculative stories in in the newspaper PK.

 

PATRICIA KARVELAS:  

What do you think should be the approach?

 

ANGUS TAYLOR: 

Well, I mean, I've long had the view that our immigration levels are too high under this government. The government itself has set targets that it's completely missed. It's coming well over those targets, and it needs to get back in control of our immigration policy. And I think that's an absolutely urgent issue for the country. We need to get the balance right. I'm a strong believer in a sensible level of immigration. I've long, long believed that a good skilled immigration program is good for the country if it's done right - but it needs to be done right. The numbers have been too high, by the government's own admission, and we need to do better.

 

PATRICIA KARVELAS:  

Is this about sending a signal to voters that you might lose to One Bation? Is that what this is about positioning for those voters that are concerned about immigration levels?

 

ANGUS TAYLOR: 

Well, as I say, PK, I don't comment on speculative articles from anonymous sources in the newspaper. What I will say is I think all Australians want to have see a sensible immigration policy with numbers that are in sync, in line with what we can we can deal with - a growth level that is manageable. And we do want to see people coming into the country that accept our core values, and we ask for that when they engage in their citizenship within citizenship ceremonies, which I go to many. That is something that we expect new Australians to commit to, and they do. So this is very important. I think all Australians support that.

 

PATRICIA KARVELAS:  

Just finally, obviously, there's been a lot of discussion about the Liberal Party and its direction. Do you still have ambitions to lead the Liberal Party one day?

 

ANGUS TAYLOR: 

Well, my ambition is to be defence minister of this great country, and to get our defence strategy to where it needs to be. It's clearly not where it needs to be right now. And we hear that from expert after expert, but we hear that from our own defence force. It's urgent now that this be fixed, and I'm going to continue to focus on that and hold the government to account for its failures.

 

PATRICIA KARVELAS: 

Yeah. I mean, some of your colleagues are pretty open about their leadership ambitions. Do you think that's appropriate?

 

ANGUS TAYLOR: 

Well, it's up to them, but I tell you my ambition is very clear. I want to be defence minister of this great nation, because I think the current defence minister and the current government are letting us down.

 

PATRICIA KARVELAS:

PK, we can keep going through this all day long, but I think I've stated my ambition very clearly. As I stated my ambition before the election, and there's no ambiguity about that.

 

PATRICIA KARVELAS:  

Okay, we're out of time. Thank you so much for joining us.

 

ANGUS TAYLOR :

Thanks PK.