E&OE

 

SALLY SARA:

Well, the Defence Minister Richard Marles says the Federal Government will continue to assess Australia's defence needs after NATO members this week agreed to lift their defence spending to 5% of GDP within 10 years. Australia currently spends just over 2% of GDP on defence, but Mr Marles, on the sidelines of the NATO Summit in The Hague, signalled to reporters that his government will continue to assess the changing needs and threats facing Australia and resource them accordingly. Joining me in our Parliament House Studio is Angus Taylor, the Shadow Minister for Defence. Angus Taylor, welcome back to Breakfast.

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

Great to be with you, Sally.

 

SALLY SARA:

Just to begin with, NATO leaders have agreed to boost their defence spending, as we heard, to 5% by 2035. Should we now follow suit and significantly boost our own defence budget, in your view?

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

Yeah, absolutely, we should be Sally, and this is about funding the government's own plan. The Defence Strategic Review laid out a pathway forward. We agree with much of it, and it's not properly funded at a time when authoritarian regimes are flexing their muscles in ways they haven't since the Second World War. The Prime Minister himself has said, this is the most uncertain time, most dangerous time since the Second World War, and we're seeing that with regimes like we have in Iran, of course, Russia and of course, closer to home, the militarisation being driven by the Chinese Communist Party and all of these things mean we are living in a highly uncertain world. We do need to get our defence spending up to meet our own plans and to make sure that we have the agility and the delivery that is absolutely necessary in this new world.

 

SALLY SARA:

Andrew Hastie has called for more transparency about the US military's growing presence in Australia. Should the public have more information about what's happening on our soil?

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

Yeah, of course. I mean, and we've asked for, I've asked for a briefing from Richard Marles on this and other issues, just in recent days, but it is important we understand where the US alliance stands and also where it's going. I think it's enormously important, not because we should be ceding sovereignty, in fact, the exact opposite. Sovereignty is absolutely essential to us making sure we are where we need to be but sovereignty is always best achieved through strong alliances and effective alliances, well governed alliances, and right now we have a real problem with our alliance. We can't even get a meeting between the Prime Minister and the President of the United States. He seems to be in a better position to get a meeting with the President of China than the President of the United States.

 

SALLY SARA:

Do Australians have the right to know if Pine Gap has been used in a US military operation?

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

Again, we do need more transparency about how the US Alliance is working and where it's going and we've asked for briefings on this, and we're going to continue to …

 

SALLY SARA:

But for the public on that really specific example.

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

Well without knowing the details it's very hard to comment Sally because we're speculating, but what I do think is that transparency of the governance of the alliance, a focus on making sure the alliance is effective for us, that we retain our sovereignty, but also playing our role in achieving peace, which is the objective here, peace through deterrence. This is essential for us.

 

SALLY SARA:

Do you have any further detail on how the Opposition proposes that Australia would pay for increased defence spending?

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

Well, we laid that out, actually, during the election campaign and of course, the next election cycle, which we're going into now, will be different from the last one, but we were able to do that, and it's not easy. Let's be clear.

 

SALLY SARA:

That included things like public servant cuts.

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

You know, let's be clear. If we are going to keep our country safe, if we are going to be sovereign and in control of our own destiny, it's not free, and that is a reality this government has not been prepared to be honest about.

 

SALLY SARA:

There would need to be cuts elsewhere. 

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

Well, no, let's be clear. This government has not been honest about this because they did their own Defence Strategic Review. It is underfunded. I mean, even areas like the Henderson submarine facilities, which are absolutely essential to the US alliance, absolutely essential to AUKUS, we know that is underfunded and if this government is not going to be honest with Australians about what is necessary to fund even their own plans, then Australians are left in the dark. You talked earlier about Australians being left in the dark. Well, they're in the dark on where this government's plans really are.

 

SALLY SARA:

On a separate issue, do you think there are currently enough female Liberal MPs and Senators?

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

No. We need more women in the Liberal Party, more generally. In our branches, in our organisations, in the Parliament, Reps, the Senate, across the board. I've long been a believer in this, but I've also long been a believer that that needs to be done in a way which is consistent with democratic processes and that mentoring, recruitment, retention is incredibly important. This has been a feature of my career, pre politics and post politics.

 

SALLY SARA:

That’s not working is it? You've got six women in the lower house.

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

It hasn't been working as well as it should be. There's no question about that. We've got some amazing women coming into the Parliament as Liberals but we need more. We need more talented people who are representative of their communities across the board, Sally.

 

SALLY SARA:

Why not go to quotas then?

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

Well, you know what? I believe in democratic processes, and I don't believe in subverting them, but I also know from my past experiences that mentoring, recruitment, support is the way to make sure you have the people you need, the talented people you need to succeed as an organisation. We don't have as much of that as we need and I'm going to continue to be a crusader on this, but in a way that I know can be effective.

 

SALLY SARA:

But it's not effective, is it?

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

Well, I think a lot of what I have done has been effective. Look at look at my own office, but I will continue to fight hard on this, because I think it's important.

 

SALLY SARA:

You were talking about democratic principles. If women represent just over half of the population, is it really democratic that you have 22 men and six women in the Lower House?

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

Well, we want, you know, I've been clear about this already. We want to make sure that we are representative of our communities in every single way, and that includes gender and so, you know, I'm not a believer in subverting democracy. I mean, you know, we're in a democratic country, and I want to see a democratic organisation in the Liberal Party.

 

SALLY SARA:

Labor can be democratic and have women come in. 

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

You know what, the Labor Party will do things their own way, and they do subvert democracy, and that's a matter for them.

 

SALLY SARA:

How?

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

Well, that's a matter for them.

 

SALLY SARA:

How do they do that?

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

I'm not going to get into … well, you know, at the end of the day, if you're going to have quotas, it means you are going to subvert democratic processes.

 

SALLY SARA:

But those women are elected, yes?

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

Well, you know, within the Labor Party or the Liberal Party, we have pre-selection processes, and I want those to be democratic processes. I've long been a crusader on this, as I have long been a crusader on attracting and retaining and mentoring talented people, including, of course, women in our party, and we have been getting some amazing women into the party. Jess Collins in the Senate is coming in New South Wales. Gisele Kaptarian, sadly, came very close too. She won a plebiscite, a highly contested plebiscite.

 

SALLY SARA:

So should the Liberal Party keep doing the same thing, even though the results are showing you it's not working?

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

No. We have to do better. There's no question about that.

 

SALLY SARA:

But with the same approach?

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

No. I mean this is my point. You know, I was a recruiting partner of a leading global consulting firm, and we pushed hard to make sure that we had a broader group of people coming into our organisation, and it worked and the key I learnt was your attraction processes, your recruitment processes, your mentoring processes, are unbelievably important, Sally, and I think we can get this right, and I'm going to keep fighting to get it right.

 

SALLY SARA:

Just finally, Sussan Ley has given her first major speech at the National Press Club this week. Do you agree with everything that she said?

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:

Well I thought it was an excellent speech, including her point about the need to get defence spending up to 3% of GDP, the fact that we are facing a time when authoritarian regimes are flexing their muscles, that Australia needs to be able to control its own destiny, that we need peace through deterrence. I mean, she was very clear on these things in my portfolio, and I have personally thanked her for those strong powerful messages.

 

SALLY SARA:

And on women? Did you agree with everything?

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:  

I absolutely agree with her that we need more women in the party and that was the point she made very strongly and as I've said already in the last couple of minutes, Sally, that's something I'm going to continue to crusade on.

 

SALLY SARA:

Angus Taylor, it's been good to have you in the studio. Thank you.

 

ANGUS TAYLOR:  

Great to be with you.

 

ENDS.