ANGUS TAYLOR:
Well, Anthony Albanese has always been more interested in personal attacks than he is in solving the problem, Laura. That’s the way he's always been and he continues to go down that path. And look, what’s needed right now and has been needed continually is more dispatchable supply. And he has a very short memory because he opposed the investment in the Kurri Kurri gas generator as a replacement for Liddell’s closure, pending closure as well as the Tallawarra gas generator. And of course, he was the one who alongside his colleagues, 12 times opposed the big stick legislation, which is all about getting more supply into the market. So here's Labor saying one thing and then having done exactly the opposite for the last several years. This is what we've seen from Albanese. He says he's going to take responsibility but I didn't see a lot of signs of him taking responsibility there. What we need right now is more supply. Chris Bowen’s initial instinct was to have a gab-fest with bureaucrats and politicians, rather than sit down with the suppliers and work out how to get more gas into the system, or dispatchable energy into the system and if he keeps going down that path, frankly, he will fail. He won't be able to keep the lights on. 

LAURA JAYES:
Well the disclosure there was quite a big one I thought from Chris Bowen as well in answer to Chris Uhlmann’s question about dispatchable power. The fact at the moment is that 56 per cent is coming from coal and gas, he disputes that prolonging the life of those coal fired power stations is the answer here. He said quote unquote that “we need more renewables in the system. They aren't in the system because the transmission system isn't up to it” and then again, look to you by the previous government for not upgrading those transmission lines. Do you accept that that is part of the problem we're facing now?

ANGUS TAYLOR:
No. Chris Bowen has a lot to learn about the energy system. He should notice that the biggest problem we have is in the evenings when the sun has gone down. That's when the problem is. That's when Matt Kean and others are asking people to turn off the lights. It’s when the sun goes down, when there's no renewables, Laura. That's why you need dispatchable generation. Now they've opposed it the entire time they were in opposition. They opposed investments in gas generation. They resisted the Kurri Kurri gas generator, they resisted the big stick legislation, they resisted the capacity mechanism. He’s now talking about it – they call it “coalkeeper” Laura.  They call it “coalkeeper”. Suddenly he’s in the hot seat and all those things he's resisted, he's now realising that they’re needed and he's saying we need more transmission lines. This is like going and buying an extension cord without having a power point. You've got to have the power point, you've got to have the generation, you've got to have the supply. He's going to have to learn this or we're going to go through years of this and he needs to take on those initiatives that we initiated, execute them properly. Don’t hamstring the Kurri Kurri gas generator. Make sure the capacity mechanism is technology neutral. At the moment he’s allowing for the possibility of excluding coal and gas. This is madness. This is madness, just as we've seen madness on this area of policy from Labor in the past.

LAURA JAYES:
This government has only been in power for four weeks. So are you saying if you were still in government, this wouldn't be happening right now? That this is all Labor's fault.

ANGUS TAYLOR:
Of course there are global pressures on energy markets, particularly the gas market. We've seen those pressures, but I'll remind you, Laura, in the lead up to the election in the first part of this year, we saw gas prices in this country sitting at a quarter of the international price. We were working closely with the gas suppliers to get more gas into the system. Keith Pitt and myself had regular discussions with these gas producers to make sure there was enough supply. We saw previous periods where there were real tensions in the market and we got more supply into the market back in 2016/2017 and subsequently, so we've dealt with these issues when we were in government. The thing that Chris Bowen and the Prime Minister need to learn is you need dispatchable generation. Sit down with the suppliers to make sure the investment in that is happening as they were opposed to and they have opposed it and vigorously they opposed it and make sure that supply is coming in both in the short term and the longer term.

LAURA JAYES:
But what about this gas trigger? I mean, it's under review at the moment. Their argument is that it's not easy to use. Did you design it in a way that you never intended to use it? You just intended to wave it as a big stick. There is a review under way now. If changes are made, will you respect those changes?

ANGUS TAYLOR:
We’ll have a look at them when they come forward. We haven't seen anything from Labor on this. But the best way to solve this problem is sit down with the suppliers. The first instinct Chris Bowen had was to have a gab-fest with politicians and bureaucrats. Sit down with the suppliers. That should be the first …

LAURA JAYES:
They done that haven’t they?

ANGUS TAYLOR:
… every time. Now you have a big stick. You have a big stick and that’s the ADGSM. And they know that. They also know that if you don't demonise them, and you support them to get more supply out, they will work with you to get more supply into the system. That's what we did for years, Laura. 

LAURA JAYES:
Is it demonising when we had Matt Kean this morning, who's on the on your side of politics, say that these companies should stop putting profits before people. Sounds like demonising to me, happening across the board.

ANGUS TAYLOR:
Well the answer is very simple. Work with them to get more supply out and into the system. We did it for years and we managed and the process to get energy costs down for households by 8 per cent, for small business by 10 per cent and for industry by 12 per cent. Now, scroll forward a couple of years from now. Labor has promised that they're going to deliver electricity price savings for Australian households. Let's see whether they can do it with the policies they're proposing here. My very strong bet is they simply won't be able to.

LAURA JAYES:
Okay, let's talk about gas because this is the transition fuel. This is what we've got plenty of in this country. Is it your view that we need to find more gas or do we need to quarantine more?

ANGUS TAYLOR:
Well you need more supply. You need to sit with the suppliers and get more supplies out and make sure that the fair share of that is going into the domestic market and that's exactly what we saw. First part of this year the gas price here in Australia was a quarter of the international price. The only other country in the world, comparable country in the world where we saw the same thing happening was the United States. And that's because we [inaudible] our suppliers. We were managing it carefully. Labor hasn't been able to manage that. They demonise the gas producers and have been doing it for years. They have been doing it for years. So no wonder the gas producers have not been inclined to work with them to get a solution. They need to work with those suppliers to get more supply into the marketplace. It's pretty simple, Laura 

LAURA JAYES:
Okay, is privatisation a problem?

ANGUS TAYLOR:
You’ve got to make the market work, whoever owns it. You’ve just got to make the market work and Chris Bowen’s instinct is to be a Soviet central planner to kill the market. That’s what he’s done …

LAURA JAYES:
They do have private or they do have public assets on the west coast though, don't they? I'm not sure that we have that same level here on the east coast.

ANGUS TAYLOR:
There’s publicly owned assets on the east coast, including Snowy owned by the Federal Government as well as the Queensland Government, the Tasmanian Government. I mean, that's not the issue. The issue is getting more dispatchable supply into the market to put downward pressure on prices. Labor still hasn’t worked that out. We're all going to pay the price until they actually come to that discovery. It's not about transmission lines. It's about supply. We're already investing in the transmission lines that were recommended by the market operator when we were in government. What's needed is to get that dispatchable supply, stop opposing it, stop resisting it, stop being ideological about it.

LAURA JAYES:
Let me ask you about the minimum wage rise. 5.2 per cent. Is that about right? Do you back it in?

ANGUS TAYLOR:
It's a decision that was made by the Independent Commission, of course. So the question now is whether Labor is taking action to avoid adding fuel to the inflationary fire right now. We have capital markets right now, the bond market that is predicting, rightly or wrongly, that we're going to have a cash rate next year of around 4 per cent. And that's mortgage rates of well over 6 per cent. That is the inflationary fire and interest rate fire we are facing. Now the key for Labor, these are global pressures we don't shy from that, but the key for Labor is are they taking action to prevent adding fuel to that fire and in particular that means containing spending. We, in the last budget saw a $100 billion turnaround, the biggest turnaround in the budget in 70 years. Is Labor going to be able to contain its spending. In the past it has never been able to. It's never been able to. We know there was $45 billion of off-budget spending in the lead up to the election they committed to including transmission lines, which were not recommended by the market operator. $20 billion for that. That will add fuel to this inflationary fire if they’re prepared to spend that sort of money, Laura. It is crucial now that Labor makes sure they spend taxpayers’ money, treat it as precious, because if they don't, they'll be adding fuel to that fire. 

LAURA JAYES:
But what is it, do you back in the Fair Work Commission's decision, or is it inflationary? Because you're warning what Labor was saying during the election that their suggestion of 5 per cent, around that would be inflationary. Do you stand by that?

ANGUS TAYLOR:
Well the risk is, it is inflationary. And much will depend on Labor's response to it though and that's the point. The risk is we end up with a price wage spiral similar to what we saw – I'm old enough to remember it, back in the 1970s. Now the government can take action to alleviate that. They can take responsibility to alleviate that. And that means tightening the belt, making sure you're not adding fuel to that fire with excessive and unnecessary government spending. So we'll wait to see what they have in the upcoming budget. We'll wait and see what their announcement or their mini budget if you want to call it that. We’ll wait and see what they have to say about that $45 billion of budget spending, but we don't need more fuel on the fire. Let me tell you and if there is, Laura, then mortgage holders in this country who are facing extreme pain in the coming forward months will really pay the price.

LAURA JAYES:
Angus Taylor, thank you for your time today. We'll see you soon.

ANGUS TAYLOR:
Good on you. Thanks, Laura.